In theory, 50/50 weight distribution would have an advantage in an AWD vehicle. On a RWD vehicle you want to be able to apply power to the rear wheels and corner at the same time so more weight in the rear has an advantage.

 

I'm talking strictly lateral grip (skidpad Gs), I'm aware of the overall advantage of rear-mid-engine for handling and traction.

 

Yes, under no acceleration (constant velocity) conditions like a skidpad, a 50/50 weight distribution in theory should have an advantage (ignoring the slip angle of the front wheels due to turning). But in real life cars brake into corners and accelerate out of corners. Any loads on a tire during longitudinal acceleration take away from its ability to handle lateral loads.

 

I guess faster isnt always 'funner' according to one of the drivers.

 

Great list of track focused cars!

 

Good question.

 

Car and driver results didn’t have it beating it with a 2:39, but GM results did beat it as they ran a 2:37. Regardless different day and driver, so not really a fair comparison given the ~1% difference.

 

Base for base, I think the point was definitely made.

No one said the mid engine layout was superior in track times to front engine regardless of chassis setup or tire application. I think the AMG GT Black Series has proven where the limits of the front engine layout are. For the Corvette though, its lead to more predictable handling, better corner exit and driver confidence even at the 450-500hp power level.

There probably won't be a GS-equivalent ie Z06 suspension/aero for the C8, but I think it would make similar gains over the C7 GS as the the C8 Z51 vs C7 Z51.

 

Id imagine a c8 z51 with 9.5 x 19 ultra sticky Michelin cup 2 tires 275/30/19 s and 12 x 20 325/25/20 s would be the track setup had the corvette team want the c8 z51 to be a track hero like the c7 grand sport z07 which listed at 93 grand.



im a hige fan of previous genration corvettes so its not a slam at previous generation.

the under 70 grand c8 z51 fe4 1lt is a hell of sports car.

the corvette team specifically chose the 245/19 tires for their ability to avoid tramlining and to be a great sports car thats fun to drive much the same as mclaren did with the 570s.

guys I own this car and its fabulous. On the street so far this this is amazing in how confidence inspiring it is.

the ability to take this new generation further and closer to its handling limits is quite imoressive.

i spent some time driving a c7 z06 and the c8. The c7 z06 was a blast yet its always apparent the chassis is on the edge. With the c8 z51 as a driver you are constatly aware even as quick as it is...under 100 mph its chassis was designed for a lot more hp. This new genration corvette is quite unflappable.

one of my favorite corvettes was my 485 hp modded c5 z06. Raw racecar like at every turn of the key.

The grand sport c7 was fabulous too. The composure of the c8 z51 in performance driving is at a whole new level. This composire instills a whole new level of confidence.

want better track times on the c8 z51 ? Think about those wheel tire packages because itll take this new generation stingrays to new levels of track performance.

i believe the corvette team created the z51 stingray with a lot of room for easy improvement with regards to track cornering and braking simply by its tire size and compound selection.

the michelin P4s is a well rounded performance tire yet its not anywhere near as track capable as the michelin cup 2 stickies.

take that into account as you compare the c7 grand sport z07 to the 2020 c8 corvette z51.

just something to consider as we revel in this fun annual car and driver lightning lap comparision.

 

The 911 is STILL the Corvette's target. The Cayman/Boxster comparison is the car media's invention.

 

Especially by, if not all, done by Porsche's loving Car and Driver...

 

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I do think the Cayman and Corvette get compared quite a bit because of how similar the pricing is. You need to bring quite a bit more money to the table to purchase a 911(new vehicles). And conversely the 911 and corvette get compared because of how close the performance is.

 

That's what's often lost in these discussions. Case in point - driving instructors are always preaching slow in / trail brake / roll early throttle / fast out yada yada, but we all know it's more fun to Ricky Bobby it - overcook the entry and get all sideways coming out. At track days in a crowd I'm the former, but as soon as I get some open space - watch out!

That's where I'm not yet sold on the C8, as I've yet to drive one with any aggression. But all those initial C8 reviews with the cars on street alignment focused on their understeering characteristics and buttoned down rears - neither which are fun. Before I write the cheque I'll need to rent one and take it down my favorite country road as I have no doubt it'll be competent, but will it turn in as aggressively as my GS, or be at ease coming out all crossed up out of my favorite S curve? No so sure.

 

in a 2wd configuration.

We never got the chance to see what an awd FME corvette could have done. It would have been interesting.

 

When you're comparing it to cars on Cup2s and the like ... sorry, can't do it. Especially with the difference less than 2 seconds.

 

The Cayman/Boxster have always been the "price point" competitors of Corvette, the problem is that the twins can't approach a base Corvette's performance (witness that you have to bring a $100K+ Cayman GT4 to compete with a $66K C8 Z51). From a performance standpoint, the base Corvette and base 911 ARE competitors.
C&D is pushing this narrative (which they invented) of the twins/C8 competing with each other. I would bet money that the average C8 buyer is NOT cross shopping the twins...if he/she is cross shopping, they are looking at a 911. That said, a Cayman/Boxster shopper could very well be shopping a C8!

 

there is no comparison once you learn to trail brake this c8 into corners as it tucks the nose in nicely and the rear follows. The handling composure of the c8 makes previous generations seem almost nervous in comparison, thats my non professional opinion after enjoying previous generation corvette z51 s and z06 s for a quarter of a million miles..

While true its hard to deny the c7 z06 is a wild *** ride. Same for the more similar powered c7 grand sport. Fabulous sports cars that can be tossed around and they are a lot of fun.

slap on some 9,5 inch front wheels and 275/30/19 cup 2 tires (12 x20 325/25/20 rear) and check back with lap times smoking the c7 grand sport z07 package that listed an msrp of 93 grand in 2017..this is real easy to see whats coming from the corvette team. Mclaren undertired the 570s for track work for better street ability and fun as a sports car on the street...(no tramlining with 245/19 front tires etc)

GM is setting the stage for the future performance models of the c8 to have some air to breath above the standard model.

jmo

 

I love Lightning Lap comparisons, love VIR and being an analytical I delve way too much into the details, lol. First, here are a few friendly reminders when making comparisons:

1) Year to year comparisons are only "ballpark" comparisons. Weather and track state (how green the track is) potentially change lap times significantly. I mean a 1-2 seconds per lap difference is easily possible if both variables are in play across two different years. As an example, tracks speed up across one weekend in a pro race series as they rubber in. The magazines don't tend to mention this fact but any racing fan will know it.

2) VIR was completely repaved in late 2013 for the 2014 season. The new surface sped up the course quite a bit... so cars like the C7Z51 compared favorably to the C6Z06/Z07 but a lot of that was the new surface being a lot grippier. They widened sections at that point too but two key corners, Nascar and Oak Tree, were widened later, in 2016 I think. That made both those corners faster as you have more room on exit. And both are tricky, particularly Nascar, so it helps the lap time.

3) Car and Driver uses staffers to lap. The guy who sets most of their times is a good driver but not a former pro with lots of race wins like a Randy Pobst or Christian Gebhardt or Andy Pilgrim. What does that mean? A few things I believe: a) he won't get as close to the ultimate potential in each car b) edgy cars will be comparatively tougher to extract more time from vs. stable, confidence building cars like the C8 c) times may get faster year on year as skills develop more than a pro who is coming in highly skilled from the start d) coaching from the manufacturer will help more than coaching to a pro. I think someone like Pobst has gotten good guidance to set faster laps too, but Colwell will be helped more. I mention this because I know Mero has been at Lightning Lap multiple times coaching the staff on how to go faster. He is uniquely suited to do it because he has set lap records at VIR. Mero did this for the ZR1 lap time, as an example, and the lap time fell a lot with more laps under his tutelage. I don't think all manufacturers do this and if they do the coaching is probably more generic than someone like Mero would provide.


The regular ZL1 was slower than the C8. I came "this close" to buying a ZL1 so I had checked out all track day references I could find. I mention it only to say that C&D had a problem with their ZL1 laps at VIR and they stated that without the problems they would have gotten into the 2:48s or even 2:47s. So odds are the ZL1 will beat out the C8 at VIR... which is a horsepower track (despite the Grand West configuration's infield section) with three very fast straights.

I think this is probably true. I also think the C7 GS lap by C&D was perhaps one of the better I've seen from them at extracting the car's potential. The C8 is easier to drive at the limit and they did a great lap with it. But they also did a great lap with the GS. Want proof? Look at what is perhaps the hairiest turn at VIR... the off camber, downhill left after the esses. The C7GS may be the fastest car ever through that turn by them. Faster than the McLaren Senna. They went almost as fast with the 2019 ZR1 but the GS even beat that through that turn. My guess is they were getting some high quality coaching from Jim Mero that day, lol.

It did. I actually think that Porsche is keeping it on regular summer tires so it doesn't match or beat the GT3RS. It would have beaten the 991.2 GT3RS lap time at VIR if it was on Cup 2s or Trofeo Rs. And don't forget the McLaren 720s from a few years ago.... it too ran on a regular summer tire.... not a Cup2/Trofeo R.... and set a blistering lap time.

That was an answer to will the GT4 with PDK be faster... and I think you may be right. However, the PDK has 10% shorter gearing than the GT4 manual so perhaps even Pobst will eke out just a little more speed with it?

Someone else corrected this... the McLaren 765LT was faster. I think the 765LT is outrageously fast with acceleration which helps a ton at VIR due to 3 very fast straights. However, the short gearing and torque make the car edgy. Add in a non pro driver and the fact that they weren't optimizing the 765LT traction control (they describe this error in the article) and that lap time is slower than it ought to be.

As much as I love lap times.... the quality of the handling and the experience has to win out for most of us, doesn't it? I mean, wouldn't most of us prefer a more enjoyable ride to one that is a few seconds faster on a 4 mile track? Most track day drivers can't extract all the performance anyway!

 

 

Really liked your analytical take and another good thing about it is that one can draw different conclusions about it all.
I agree most track day drivers can't extract all the performance.....OR can but won't because they don't want to crash.