If you paint the car put a new interior change bumpers. Is it still a LT-1 or is it still even Corvette.As long it is what it was I see no problem. Why ain't you bitching about color change added options ETC. Is it still a Corvette. IT"S the documentation do you people get it. Can you tell a re stamp. You people kill me. Ma by it's sour grapes. Sorry but on this forum this subject keeps coming up . Let go folks. If you can't understand the game don't play. Plus why do you care. Are you upset that has a nice restoration motor car with documentation to prove it. is selling for more than your car.

 

It wouldn't be the same watch, but it wouldn't be a Polex either.
Its still a Rolex if the mechanism is replaced with a Rolex mechanism!

The original quote implied that changing any part would make it equivalent to a replica. I don't think that analogy fits.

 

 

Whatever. There are some "folks" [I'm certain that it's not one of you] who work real hard at making a "fake" VIN number look very original and then take it around to car shows and brag about how it's a "numbers matching" car....and how you only paid so much for it...etc. etc. Some of "those folks" even like to make an extra $5-10K when they sell it...because it (and the phoney paperwork) look so-o-o authentic. Frankly, "those folks" are as phoney as their cars. And, if you are one of those hypothetical people with the original block/engine that just "happened to have the VIN removed during rebuild" {like I'd not tell the machinist NOT to mill the VIN pad...DUH}, well....you should have left the pad alone. It is what it is.

 

In my real life case situation, I DID tell the shop not to mill the numbers off. He said the the block had a .020 twist in it and that's what it took to level it out.Took pics of the numbers on Tue. went back on Weds. and the numbers are gone, MILLED OFF! He should have called me before he did it, but he didn't. What to do? That's just my problem.

 

In your case, the only thing to do is get a notarized affidavit from the machinist that the block he "screwed up" had the proper VIN number. That, and the before and after pictures, are the only legitimate documentation for such a problem. If the block was a particularly rare one and you had the request not to mill the pad written into the repair order, you may have grounds to sue for the lost value [if you really want to go that way]. If not, you can never prove that you told him NOT to remove the VIN.

 

 

We are dealing with cars 25 to 40 years old, many (most?) have been rode hard and put away wet for along time. Driven 1/4 mi at a time until the engine blew, nosed into a power pole or both. The virgin body, "original motor" car is as big a fantasy as the large breasted/tiny bottomed woman. They don't exist in the natural world. And both are expensive to posess.

As your enjoying your matching number ride, give a tip of the hat to the workmanship it took to (re)create. As your enjoying the woman...my complements to the surgeon. /:\

 

And one more thing, Deck. Block. How does one screw that up. My 8yrs old grandkid knows that.

 

And this is the hindsight part of this lession. For me, this is the first time dealing with matching numbers and it's importants. First time getting a shop to rebuild the motor.etc. Didn't have it in writing about not milling the numbers off. Only verbal. All I can do is get him to write the letter about the mishap and verify that the numbers I had is what he took off. Why couldn't I have read this forum regarding the numbers thing first before I sent my motor in. ( luck of the draw ) So hopefully others can read the forum and learn from other members mistakes. That's why I belong to this forum, to learn from others, except my lession is alittle too late.
Tony

 

Regarding the decked block, when your a newbie to just owning a vette and not knowing everything the veterans know about vettes, it's easy to make mistakes. I'm sure alot of members have made plenty of costy mistakes along the way in restoring their vette. But you learn from it and share it with others so they don't have to. I learned as things started to happen. Somethimes you fine out the answer a day latter and it's too late, damage is done. Have to move on. So I don't think we should presume everyone should know everything. And does every 8 year old kid know how to rebuild a motor. Mine done even know what a motor is let alone not to deck the block and mill the numbers off. Guess I have stupid kids.

 

What's the difference in putting in a whole new repro interior? It's not the original interior......but it "looks" like what was installed in the car 25-30 years ago.

Why is an engine any different? If the numbers "match" and the engine detail for detail "looks" like what came in the car originally wouldn't that be ok?

What about the frame?

What about repro tires?

What about the transmission?

The list could go on and on......the engine is no different....it just has some numbers stamped on it........

The whole idea is to make the car "appear" as it came off the assembly line, so I don't think re-stamping an engine that is the exact cubic inch would be fraud.

But taking a plain 1969 6 cylinder camaro for example and re-stamping the vin and making it look like a 1969 Z28 w/ a 302 is..... ..

 

I beg to differ, While i havent owned many vettes i have owned 25-30 classic muscle cars, Some bb numbers cars some no where near close to being original. With that said i have found it easier to make a profit from a quality built/modified non numbers matching car than to turn a numbers car with a large pay out to aquire the car to begin with.
I also have never bought a single car with the idea that i was making an investment. Thats what stocks and bonds are for. I buy cars because i enjoy working on them and driving them, which if you buy a high dollar numbers car for an investment the odds are it will go in a bubble in a garage or risk decreasing the value (blow that original motor or putting more miles on it?)
I would say those that pay big money for numbers matching/original cars are the ones most worried about the fraudulant activities going on now days as more and more people will be less interested in paying all that money for something that they may never be able to prove is or isnt original/matching hence driving the prices of these type of cars down?
There will always be the serious collectors with the money to burn and more power to them! I think the old car market in general corvettes,chevelles,camaros, etc. has peaked and will soon start to slide down back to reality!

 

After reading all this I'm glad none of my numbers match. Then there is nothing to worry about.

 

Ok, if you blow your 2 week old block and GM replaces it (not the dealer, they can't authorize warranty replacements) you have paperwork to prove what happened. It is what it is do not try to make it something else by stamping the replacement with the original block's numbers.

If your original block gets decked do not re-stamp it. Missing numbers is one indication for the next mechanic who works on it that there is less material than there was originally. If he mills it more for any reason there is a risk of changing the alignment of the heads which in turn changes the alignment of the intake manifold.

Finally, if I have a Corvette with a replacement engine for what ever reason, I do not expect to be able to sell it for as much as someone who has the good fortune of having one with the original engine and neither should anyone else.

The VIN is stamped on the frame, the engine and the transmission and is what police use to determine if a car is stolen or not. Imagine your surprise if two engines show up with the same VIN stamp!

I have a very good friend who purchased a 1970 coupe that originally had and LS-5 engine but it was missing. He was able to track down that engine by tracing thehistory of the car back through it's previous owners. The car and the engine are now back under the same roof (needs total restore cause it's in really sorry shape).
Anyone who stamps their VIN onto an engine that was not installed in their car at the factory is commiting fraud and there is no way around it.

If it was no big deal, those numbers would not exist in the first place. You can't rationalize around it. They were put there to provide some level of assurance of who the vehicle belonged to and that it was not stolen and that it is authentic according to the manufacturer.

Now why on earth would you think that it is no big deal to restamp?

There are a lot of reasons but none of them are justifiable or ethical.

 

OK I more time. So if I want to buy your Corvette & it's not the original motor then I should assume it's stolen. What about a rusty frame that was replaced. Now I get why some people have there pantie's in a woad. They have NOM & can't prove that they own the car. I was upset because a owner on here changed a trim tag to make a green car a red/red. I really pitched a bitch. I am not for making a car something it's not but I do believe in restoring these great old Corvettes to how they looked when the were new but not something they were not.

 

Not quite what I said. If it's not the original engine but it has the same numbers stamped as the original. That makes all sorts of implications that aren't true. Like the enigine has the same number of years wear and tear as the rest of the car. That it is the engine that was installed at the factory.

I never said a re-stamped engine automatically makes it a stolen car but the risk is significantly higher that at least part of the car may be stolen.

It was mentioned by more than one member earlier, if the intent is not to make someone think it is the original engine, then why re-stamp?

 

You tell me one day when you buy a 70 LT1 and pay the price for one, then discover a low compression two barrel" correct era" engine has been transplanted and you paid $35000 for a $15000 car!
Alot of the times its the internal parts that make the engines difference.

 

It must be a sign of the economy. We have this discussion seemingly
every day in one thread or another. Lots of insecure people worried
about the value of their car (investment as some choose). Understandable, but how is it any different than home prices, stocks, etc.? Which have taken a plunge, Hoping for a better New Year and


MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.

 

I'm talking about an engine that is exactly the same internally and externally other than the stamp on the block. And in my opinion the numbers re-stamping should be limited to the frame and engine only.........not the vehicle vin#

I think it's ok to make the engine and frame match the vin plate on the car and not the other way around.....but that's my opinion and I am entitled to that..........