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Yeah!! My trailing arms are back. New SS park brake, rotors dialed in. WOO HOO
So I opened up the new poly bushing box. Been looking forward to getting these arms installed. Hmm, notice something missing? Yep, box is short one half, of one bushing. Gotta laugh about it at this point.
your not having much luck with the small pieces are you .
Personally I think they did you a favour , now you could send it back and get some rubber bushes . Just my thoughts as I have seen those things(poly) just break into pieces , even when there not old at all.
your not having much luck with the small pieces are you .
Personally I think they did you a favour , now you could send it back and get some rubber bushes . Just my thoughts as I have seen those things(poly) just break into pieces , even when there not old at all.
those arms look so good as well .
coming along nicely
I debated about rubber vs poly for these, the tipping point was when Jim from Tuckers ( the guy who rebuilt the ta's) told me that the new poly one's, not the old kind that are brittle, and break, are growing on him. He's old school, and does alot of tru restorations, so he mostly stocks and uses original parts. But he said for a daily driver, not a race car, the poly ones here actually make more sense. They will prolly last the life of the car, and he thinks they may help maintain alignment over the years. One of my main goals with this project, is to try to make the car better thru technology, I've found that new tech is pretty expensive tho, so I'm trying to research, and do what I can, where I can. Thanks for the comments, I've decided that this car is a test of my patience, and I don't like to lose.
I debated about rubber vs poly for these, the tipping point was when Jim from Tuckers ( the guy who rebuilt the ta's) told me that the new poly one's, not the old kind that are brittle, and break, are growing on him. He's old school, and does alot of tru restorations, so he mostly stocks and uses original parts. But he said for a daily driver, not a race car, the poly ones here actually make more sense. They will prolly last the life of the car, and he thinks they may help maintain alignment over the years. One of my main goals with this project, is to try to make the car better thru technology, I've found that new tech is pretty expensive tho, so I'm trying to research, and do what I can, where I can. Thanks for the comments, I've decided that this car is a test of my patience, and I don't like to lose.
So they made a new formula poly , that's good to know . The idea of a stiffer bush in there is good . but those old ones , so many stories of pre-mature failure for me . That's where I was coming from .Glad you went with the new-new ones , now all Jim has to do is give you the final piece .
those washers look to small ? , interesting to see how you press all that together ? or don't they get pressed ?
staying tuned until next update
Is that gold anodizing or paint on those rotors ? they look too nice to use
It looks like I'm stuck waiting for a new bushing after all. Stopped by Tuckers this afternoon, but the only bushings Jim had were the original, style, and I've already installed one arm, don't wanna mix bushing types. So I'll have to wait some more. The break rotors are covered in 100% 99 cent dollar store spray paint. Glad they look good, but within 100 miles, the paint will burn off. I only painted them due to the high humidity of my shop during the summer with a swamp cooler running. Plus, It makes me feel good to see everything all clean and fresh looking. I'm holding off on the real work on all the break parts. Someone posted once, that it's a common mistake to rebuild break calibers early in the build, only then to let them sit unused for an extended amount of time. This makes sense to me, so I'll build the whole car, then address the brakes. I still haven't picked out wheels for it yet, so I don't know if they will even be visible or not.
Oh, and the bushings, they are the new style that do not require pressing, or flaring. No measurements to worry about. They are a little wider than stock, so fewer shims are required. My arms were nearly centered with equal shims inboard, and outboard, so they should work very well. If they were already offset bad,, mostly shims on one side or the other, then these new ones might not work because of the extra width. The batt in my mic is dead of course, but I reinstalled the original shims, as they were before, and only had to leave out one very thin one. Maybe 15 mils thick. Should be close enough for an alignment later I would think.
I agree , do the brakes last and fill them up straight away.
no pressing/flaring of those bushes !,so they rely on forcing in enough shims to hold it all together . Interesting.
I painted my rotors similar to what you have done thinking the paint would do that as well , well they squealed and chattered and generally performed crap until I sanded it all off and I think I threw away the pads and put new ones on . But I was using a heat proof ceramic (rattle can ) paint .lol
So this should be interesting. Everyone following this knows I've been very disappointed with Zip products. Long story short. They sell other peoples stuff, nothing their own. I went ahead and ordered the bushing I needed from Summit. But couldn't resist sending an email to Zip about the missing part. I'm wondering what kind of response I'll get this time.
the email:
Scott Bell
Mon, 10/23/17 6:21 pm
So again, another issue with your Complete bushing kit. Out of all the
extra bushings included in this kit, the one I do need is missing one half
of the poly bushing that I do need. All the hardware is there, just only
3 poly inserts when 4 is needed. It's box labeled 7-303-BL. I know from
past experience that this number doesn't mean anything to you. But it is
the only reference number I have from a product that I bought from YOU. I
know,, your super busy, selling tons of stuff to millions of folks around
the world., and all you really do is resale stuff from other vendors at a
profit, and have no control over what YOUR actually selling, and don't have
anyway of knowing what part numbers correspond with each part YOU sell.
But If you could please advise me on how I could purchase this one missing
piece, I might not have as much antagonism against you as I currently do.
Thank you very much in advance
So this should be interesting. Everyone following this knows I've been very disappointed with Zip products. Long story short. They sell other peoples stuff, nothing their own. I went ahead and ordered the bushing I needed from Summit. But couldn't resist sending an email to Zip about the missing part. I'm wondering what kind of response I'll get this time.
the email:
Scott Bell
Mon, 10/23/17 6:21 pm
So again, another issue with your Complete bushing kit. Out of all the
extra bushings included in this kit, the one I do need is missing one half
of the poly bushing that I do need. All the hardware is there, just only
3 poly inserts when 4 is needed. It's box labeled 7-303-BL. I know from
past experience that this number doesn't mean anything to you. But it is
the only reference number I have from a product that I bought from YOU. I
know,, your super busy, selling tons of stuff to millions of folks around
the world., and all you really do is resale stuff from other vendors at a
profit, and have no control over what YOUR actually selling, and don't have
anyway of knowing what part numbers correspond with each part YOU sell.
But If you could please advise me on how I could purchase this one missing
piece, I might not have as much antagonism against you as I currently do.
Thank you very much in advance
So this should be interesting. Everyone following this knows I've been very disappointed with Zip products. Long story short. They sell other peoples stuff, nothing their own. the email:
[QUOTESo this should be interesting. Everyone following this knows I've been very disappointed with Zip products. Long story short. They sell other peoples stuff, nothing their own. I went ahead and ordered the bushing I needed from Summit. But couldn't resist sending an email to Zip about the missing part. I'm wondering what kind of response I'll get this time.
the email:][/QUOTE]
Well I guess like a fool I responded to you before seeing your post. Mr. Bell what do you think Summit racing makes? Did you think that Zip made the PROTHANE bushings that we sent to you, I am sure Prothane would not appreciate if we did and used their name. So since you don't seem to understand how any of the Corvette companies work let me explain for you. Zip Products has their own products that we make, it is how we started. We do not make every part for a Corvette so we also sell other companies parts, it is a very common thing in the U.S. Corvette Central, Eckler's, Paragon, VB&P, Van Steel, Bair's, Corvette America, they also make their own parts, and they also sell other companies parts as well. This is how it works and how it has always been in the Corvette hobby. Summit actually doesn't make anything, the are a warehouse distributor retailer and they pay other companies to brand items for them. There are plenty like them as will, Jegs, Turn14, Motovicity etc. You can run into all of these and have great discussions with them at SEMA coming up along with allot of companies that make one thing, like Prothane. Prothane makes bushings, but when you needed ball joints or anything else for your Corvette they would not have those. That is where your Corvette specialty companies come in like Zip, Corvette Central, Corvette America, etc. Hope you are getting the trend and how specialty companies work. Now I am happy to see that you figured out it was a Trailing Arm bushing you were missing, instead of giving a part number you knew that we don't have a record of along with an antagonizing email, you could have simply said, I don't know, I am missing a trailing arm bushing. Well I am happy that Summit helped you, hopefully they will be able to help you in the future as well.
Justin A.
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; 10-24-2017 at 05:12 PM.
So this should be interesting. Everyone following this knows I've been very disappointed with Zip products. Long story short. They sell other peoples stuff, nothing their own. the email:
[QUOTESo this should be interesting. Everyone following this knows I've been very disappointed with Zip products. Long story short. They sell other peoples stuff, nothing their own. I went ahead and ordered the bushing I needed from Summit. But couldn't resist sending an email to Zip about the missing part. I'm wondering what kind of response I'll get this time.
the email:]
Well I guess like a fool I responded to you before seeing your post. Mr. Bell what do you think Summit racing makes? Did you think that Zip made the PROTHANE bushings that we sent to you, I am sure Prothane would not appreciate if we did and used their name. So since you don't seem to understand how any of the Corvette companies work let me explain for you. Zip Products has their own products that we make, it is how we started. We do not make every part for a Corvette so we also sell other companies parts, it is a very common thing in the U.S. Corvette Central, Eckler's, Paragon, VB&P, Van Steel, Bair's, Corvette America, they also make their own parts, and they also sell other companies parts as well. This is how it works and how it has always been in the Corvette hobby. Summit actually doesn't make anything, the are a warehouse distributor retailer and they pay other companies to brand items for them. There are plenty like them as will, Jegs, Turn14, Motovicity etc. You can run into all of these and have great discussions with them at SEMA coming up along with allot of companies that make one thing, like Prothane. Prothane makes bushings, but when you needed ball joints or anything else for your Corvette they would not have those. That is where your Corvette specialty companies come in like Zip, Corvette Central, Corvette America, etc. Hope you are getting the trend and how specialty companies work. Now I am happy to see that you figured out it was a Trailing Arm bushing you were missing, instead of giving a part number you knew that we don't have a record of along with an antagonizing email, you could have simply said, I don't know, I am missing a trailing arm bushing. Well I am happy that Summit helped you, hopefully they will be able to help you in the future as well.
Justin A.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the quick reply Justin. Wow, you really told me off. And I'm guessing that the last sentence means you don't want me as a customer anymore? I still have a ton of stuff to buy.
I gave you exactly the info I could, based on the material you sold me, as I explained in the email. Since the box the missing bushing was from was labeled C-arm, am I supposed to tell you I'm missing a control arm bushing, or a trailing arm bushing labeled control arm?
I try to be pretty precise and clear when email, or text is used, and when somethings uncertain, leave it unsaid, and wait for the following questions to answer.
You could have replied to me with,,,,, Hey Scott, sorry that happened again, tell me what bushing you're missing and I'll try to help.
Or you could have replied with,,, Sorry that happened again, but without more information on the part, I can't help.
What did I get? You already stated you replied to my email before responding to this forum. A pretty sad form of customer relations.
See Justin, the way the world of business works is, if you sell a product, you need to be able to know what that product is. Me, I'm a high rise hotel plumber/pipefitter. When we start a job, we submit a package to the owners containing every single piece, and part that will be used on their job. Nothing is left out, every toilet, supply line, faucet, nuts and bolts for hangers, the type of glue used, even the type of screws used to support inwall piping. Everything. And believe it or not, a hard copy of this submittal package in a three ring binder is usually 4 inches or less in depth. And when any question comes up, all I have to do is refer to this simple binder. Yes, I use it all the time. Why you ask? Because I'm required to be able to answer any question that the owner may ask. I have to know every detail about every single thing that we install for them, including part numbers in case they want identical parts for future use. This is the way it's been for many, many years now. It's a simple process.
If I can build a $50 Billion casino/hotel, and keep track of each single part, why can't you keep track of a few thousand parts? Maybe start with less time writing nasty emails to customers?
Not trying to knock on you Justin, it's just that the entire point of documenting my build is to help the future guys and girls with their build. Hopefully, all the mistakes I make, they can avoid. So far, the biggest mistake I've made was in purchasing the "complete body and bushing kit from ZIP" . The boxes the bushings came in are mislabelled, only parts of certain bushings are included, and the part numbers on each box are what?, I don't know. I tried your advice to contact the manufacturer to discern what part numbers apply to which particular bushing, turns out, that email went to a fourth party vendor that never replied. So I'm forced to deal with you.
What do I want you ask? As a purchaser, I should reasonably expect that the seller should be able to answer questions that I may have, including which bushing part numbers correspond to which bushing on the car. If the seller can't provide this information, they should be able to provide a next contact that can. And they should be responsible for ensuring that said next contact completes any dialogue to customer satisfaction. And I want my missing trailing arm bushing!
Well I guess like a fool I responded to you before seeing your post. Mr. Bell what do you think Summit racing makes? Did you think that Zip made the PROTHANE bushings that we sent to you, I am sure Prothane would not appreciate if we did and used their name. So since you don't seem to understand how any of the Corvette companies work let me explain for you. Zip Products has their own products that we make, it is how we started. We do not make every part for a Corvette so we also sell other companies parts, it is a very common thing in the U.S. Corvette Central, Eckler's, Paragon, VB&P, Van Steel, Bair's, Corvette America, they also make their own parts, and they also sell other companies parts as well. This is how it works and how it has always been in the Corvette hobby. Summit actually doesn't make anything, the are a warehouse distributor retailer and they pay other companies to brand items for them. There are plenty like them as will, Jegs, Turn14, Motovicity etc. You can run into all of these and have great discussions with them at SEMA coming up along with allot of companies that make one thing, like Prothane. Prothane makes bushings, but when you needed ball joints or anything else for your Corvette they would not have those. That is where your Corvette specialty companies come in like Zip, Corvette Central, Corvette America, etc. Hope you are getting the trend and how specialty companies work. Now I am happy to see that you figured out it was a Trailing Arm bushing you were missing, instead of giving a part number you knew that we don't have a record of along with an antagonizing email, you could have simply said, I don't know, I am missing a trailing arm bushing. Well I am happy that Summit helped you, hopefully they will be able to help you in the future as well.
Justin A.
Thanks for the quick reply Justin. Wow, you really told me off. And I'm guessing that the last sentence means you don't want me as a customer anymore? I still have a ton of stuff to buy.
I gave you exactly the info I could, based on the material you sold me, as I explained in the email. Since the box the missing bushing was from was labeled C-arm, am I supposed to tell you I'm missing a control arm bushing, or a trailing arm bushing labeled control arm?
I try to be pretty precise and clear when email, or text is used, and when somethings uncertain, leave it unsaid, and wait for the following questions to answer.
You could have replied to me with,,,,, Hey Scott, sorry that happened again, tell me what bushing you're missing and I'll try to help.
Or you could have replied with,,, Sorry that happened again, but without more information on the part, I can't help.
What did I get? You already stated you replied to my email before responding to this forum. A pretty sad form of customer relations.
See Justin, the way the world of business works is, if you sell a product, you need to be able to know what that product is. Me, I'm a high rise hotel plumber/pipefitter. When we start a job, we submit a package to the owners containing every single piece, and part that will be used on their job. Nothing is left out, every toilet, supply line, faucet, nuts and bolts for hangers, the type of glue used, even the type of screws used to support inwall piping. Everything. And believe it or not, a hard copy of this submittal package in a three ring binder is usually 4 inches or less in depth. And when any question comes up, all I have to do is refer to this simple binder. Yes, I use it all the time. Why you ask? Because I'm required to be able to answer any question that the owner may ask. I have to know every detail about every single thing that we install for them, including part numbers in case they want identical parts for future use. This is the way it's been for many, many years now. It's a simple process.
If I can build a $50 Billion casino/hotel, and keep track of each single part, why can't you keep track of a few thousand parts? Maybe start with less time writing nasty emails to customers?
Not trying to knock on you Justin, it's just that the entire point of documenting my build is to help the future guys and girls with their build. Hopefully, all the mistakes I make, they can avoid. So far, the biggest mistake I've made was in purchasing the "complete body and bushing kit from ZIP" . The boxes the bushings came in are mislabelled, only parts of certain bushings are included, and the part numbers on each box are what?, I don't know. I tried your advice to contact the manufacturer to discern what part numbers apply to which particular bushing, turns out, that email went to a fourth party vendor that never replied. So I'm forced to deal with you.
What do I want you ask? As a purchaser, I should reasonably expect that the seller should be able to answer questions that I may have, including which bushing part numbers correspond to which bushing on the car. If the seller can't provide this information, they should be able to provide a next contact that can. And they should be responsible for ensuring that said next contact completes any dialogue to customer satisfaction. And I want my missing trailing arm bushing!
A very humbled Scott.[/QUOTE]
Scott,
That is not what you set off to do by the thread you left earlier. It was "watch this". I am not on the forum, I do get alerts which is what brought me back to your thread after I had returned you email. My "attitude" is directly related to yours, I will go out of my way to help someone, but I will not allow ZIP to be stepped on either. You can view that anyway you like, we are not Walmart and will not allow that type of behavior. I tried to explain to you about the part numbers, I can't help if you do not understand that. I buy poly bushing from two different sources because we are friendly with both. The complete kit comes from Prothane and the individual items comes from Energy Suspension. I explained to you that I do not have the individual part number from Prothane, all you had to do was tell me what you were missing, ie, trailing arm bushing, strut rod bushing etc. You chose to go another route. I am surprised that all of the vendors you mention on here that you have not heard back from, you have heard back from us but you have issues with us and want to say thing like "Zip doesn't manufacture anything". You can use, I have thousands of more dollars to spend, but I highly doubt that is coming to us. I am not going to allow the behavior to slide because you have money to spend, if every transaction from you is like this, then yes I would prefer you to use someone else. If you would like to be cordial and not try and set us up then we would be more than happy to help you.
Justin
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; 10-25-2017 at 10:13 AM.
As another note, the picture you posted, say RR (rear) C-arm ( control arm) poly without shells. If you have said that I would have known you were talking about a trailing arm bushing. I just don't have their part numbers.
As another note, the picture you posted, say RR (rear) C-arm ( control arm) poly without shells. If you have said that I would have known you were talking about a trailing arm bushing. I just don't have their part numbers.
This is CRAZY. So how did the guy who packaged my box know what small boxes from Prothane were to go in it? The Whole point of this is that it's not that difficult to develop tracking a system, which would completely eliminate these types of problems. I promise I'm not trying to bait you, or set you up to look bad. And I never said " watch this" I said " well this should be interesting". From past dialogue I expected a tart response, yep,,, I got it. I don't want this trash talk wasting time email crap. I want results. When I spend money, I look for price, and availability. If I need something quick, I'm willing to pay more. But as a customer, I fully expect the seller to be able to answer simple questions about the material I bought without having to photo it, or describe it in detail. Thats what part numbers are for. Send these emails up the chain to the owners of Zip if you have to. There is a need for this that you probably can't, or wont admit to, based on your loyalty to Zip, which I applaud by the way. But come on man, I'm tired of excuses. Just make things work better. My new trailing arm bushing just showed up, so I gotta go to work now.
And yes, I still want my missing bushing.
And also, if I buy from Zip again, and there are problems with that order, you can bet your backside that I'll complain again, but your looking at it the wrong way. The complaints are supposed to show company's things that can be improved.
Like I've said many times now, I again thank you for responding. Yes, your correct that many of the other vendors never even bothered to. So If Zip could fix some minor tracking problems, then they would be my go to vendor
Hope this ends this for now.
Thanks Justin, ( Seriously )
Scott,
I get what you are saying about the tracking but your not listening to what I am explaining to you. Nobody here at Zip packed that Prothane box, it came in from Prothane like that. I do not sell their (Prothane) individual pieces which is why we do not have those part numbers. That will never change unless we start selling Prothane's parts on an individual basis. We do sell bushings like that but they are Energy Suspension. My whole point was you spent all this time of why we should know a part number instead of just saying I need this part for my trailing arm. You compared the entire list for part in a hotel, but to be fair what you are asking me for is the part number of a washer inside one of the Kohler toilets that was purchased in a lot of 700 for 700 rooms. Of course you have the part number of the toilet, but does your book have the part number for every single component inside that toilet, see the point. So you said you bought for the bushing from Summit, did you or not and do you still need the bushing? Nobody wants to be smart or argue with you, but I am going to stand our ground when I believe someone is trying to purposely abuse us. You can see from my signature in my email to you, that is as high up the chain as it can go. Our practices and how we track part is really good, everything can be improved but not what you are asking about. We do not track a component of an assembly that we at ZIP do not build. Let me know if you still need the part or not. Email is always the best way to contact me.
Justin Abbott
VP
Last edited by Zip Corvettes; 10-26-2017 at 12:38 PM.
Been on a forced hiatus. Wife has been very supportive with the time and money spent on my projects in general, so when she says take a break, I listen. But it's time to get back to work.
Things are basically at the same place as when last posted, so except for the big time gap, nothing else has changed. I'll get the rear end finished today I think, and then the big things left are steering, motor and trans. I really need to get wheels and tires on it soon as well, since it's still sitting on jack stands, and getting heavy.
Thanks again to all those who were following this.
So the place I left off at was with the new trailing arms bolted to the car, the shims were reinstalled the same way they came out originally. Only difference was the the new bushings required slightly less shims. I was lucky that I had the same small shim on the outboard side of each, and It was exactly the right amount to exclude. Close enough to get an alignment done later. Bigger problem was I couldn't get the drivers side shims to all slip down into channel for the cotter pin to secure them. I spent several hours tweaking, jerking, shaking, and cussing at it trying to get them to pivot down. Aghh! Once I finally got my head where I could look in to the nook, here is what I found.
During the frame weld out, I let a dingle berry happen at a very bad location. This bit of droppy metal kept the shims from being able to slip down into their niche.
A sharp chisel cut it right off, and fixed the problem.
TA installed and cotter pin thru the shims.
Now, let me say, installing these are almost as hard as removing them. One person can get the arm, and the pivot bolt engaged, but to get all the shims in required alot of muscle, and a second pair of hands. While I held the roter and twisted, pulled, shaked, etc, my daughter was able to slip the final shims into place. It would be easier if you had three people. there are several ways you can use a pry bar to help slip them in, but the TA is heavy, you'll get tired, and holding it with one hand while prying with the other is a chore.
Next up was the half shafts, and the lower strut rod to connect. With a floor jack, and a 12 inch long 4x4, I raised the TA up until the half shaft flange seated nicely with it. Not too hard, but you will have to adjust as you go because you can really only put one bolt in at a time. Just keep spinning the roter till you get all four started. Don't forget the french locks. i did the first time. To tighten the bolts, I put a pry bar into the open space at the diff. u bolts, and let the other end rest against the upper diff support. This is where the adjustments come in. Due to the tight fit, it's hard to get a socket on the bolt heads. Other threads have said they had to use special made sockets, or maybe spark plug sockets to get to these, but I found that if I took enough time to find the sweet spot, a regular non deepwell socket fit just fine. Adjusting the height of the TA, along with the placement of the backup prybar allowed me to get the angle of the halfshaft out of the way.
The strut rods were no easier. Not a physical tough, but an alignment tough. I first installed them to the diff bracket. With the new bushings, you really got to work them to get the bolt holes aligned. They fit tight. Then to hook up the other ends, It's a matter of jacking the roter up or down so that the pitch, angle, camber, toe, and rotation of the earth, are all aligned. Again, with the new bushings, it's tight. Once it's all started straight, you will then need to keep adjusting because as you push the rod into the spindle bracket, the angles change, so keep adjusting. I used the floor jack and 12" 4x4 to brace the bottom of the strut rod, while using my body weight to manhandle the TA around trying to get it to slip into place. Alot of frustration, time, and effort went into this, but in the end, both sides finally slipped into place. There is prolly alot easier way to do this, but I'm pretty hard headed, and maybe not so smart. Do some research before trying it the way I did.
10-21-2017, 04:42 PM
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