I turned the compromise with respect and integrity to every other NCRS member. It’s an unfair advantage and was quite surprised it was suggested.

I explained this to the 1969 team leader.

 

Hi,
That is the "mechanics" of the rule but what is the purpose/intent of the rule? Why does it matter? The car is the car and that is what should be judged. The car gets the award and it is not for NCRS to audit the DMV. Granted in this one the circumstances of ownership were a bit out of the norm. A situation like this is a symptom of underlying problems.

Also read...correct me if I am wrong ...that awards do not transfer with sale of the car...what up with that?

I have the judging reference manual. One of the most poorly written works I have seen in my 60+ years.

TWENTY THREE different awards....seems that should be culled down to a handful...but is symptomatic of a good idea gone out of control.

OTOH...I am VERY grateful NCRS exists and conceptually it is great and invaluable to a restorer. But it needs major transformation and return to it's roots. Totally lost it's way....did I mention the website?

 

This nonsense about "rules" written and enforced by "officials" has NO place in my world of Corvette ownership, and I agree with Piste about the "intent" of the whole thing. It should be about the car.....not who owned it, or how many owners own it, or blah blah blah. What the hell does that have to do with the car?? Adding that nonsense on top of the details of the car itself sounds like a layer added on to further complicate, and empower, the officials and all their "rules".....so they can further seperate those who are worthy and those who are not. What added value to the subject is made by adding that layer???? NCRS guys.....please explain the value of that. I am waiting.......

I understand about rules.....my job requires I operate by rules all the time. I also know that "originality" is defined by authenticity, accuracy,.....which are actually simply FACTS......not "rules", and IMO, that is what matters. But heh.....never been interested in the whole NCRS gig......and if and when any one of them walks up to my car and starts lecturing me about it.......they will find out quickly what I think about that. What I do know is,.....they would look down on the changes I have made to my car.....and IDGAF.

And again.......this is the biggest and best Corvette forum out there.......where is the guy who started all this with the OP.....should he not be here to explain his position? OR is it easier just to make rules and hide behind his uncontested authority? Reminds me of some governments and "leaders" from the past and present. And that is disgusting.

 

I twice emailed the NCRS National Judging Chairman David Brigham , inviting his collaboration, and included a link to this discussion.

 

Interesting that you don't see that ignoring past entry errors is also to your unfair advantage with respect to those who had the rules enforced on their entries. If you truly wanted a solution, rather than publicly complaining about a situation that you have no intention of finding a solution for, I think you'd take Brigham up on his offer – and order the judging rules book prior to the next meet. I understand this is a moot point since you cancelled your membership. It's too bad that you aren't seeing your role in this sequence of errors.

I'm out.

 

Another perspective...I think if one chooses to go to the circus ya should not complain it is full of clowns.

 

Just think of all the time this will free up for you and your father to enjoy driving the car together!

 

very true. In fact I completely agree. Not one post by myself did I state it’s full of clowns. Just an executive decision by David Brigham waa clownish

 

Took you up on your advice. Perfect weather today

 

Love that black one!

 

I am not as experienced in NCRS as you and your father are (you said your father has been an NCRS judge for six years, so he is well aware of the ownership requirement), but I did post the rule about ownership.

NCRS has a rule that the legal title owner to the car is the one who must enter the car. This is not my rule, but this is the NCRS rule. Without debating the wisdom of this rule (one poster here referred to this rule, of requiring the title owner to register the car, as “nonsense”), the rule is neither confusing or ambiguous.

Although your initial post was vague, such that the very intelligent, perceptive, and detail-oriented members here believed that the DMV title shows joint ownership of the car, according to you, your car has one owner listed on its state-issued title. This is how you and your father chose to proceed with the state DMV, of one sole owner on the state-issued title. This was a voluntary decision on your and your father’s part, to have you be the sole legal title owner.

You and your father, who share the same name, know who, exactly, is the true, legal title owner in the eyes of your state’s DMV. This information, however, is not known to the rest of the world, including the volunteers at NCRS events who allowed your father to enter your car in judging events, using his and not the title owner’s NCRS member number, while the real title owner (you) were also physically present at the same events.

Your initial post was confusing, but it appears that both of you, who are experienced NCRS members, did not comply with the clear and unambiguous NCRS rule, requiring the legal owner to enter the car. What is not clear and unambiguous is why you and your father did this, i.e. your father, an experienced NCRS judge, entered a car for judging using his NCRS member number, despite knowing that he is not on title, and despite knowing that the true, legal title owner (you) is also an NCRS member who could enter the car himself.

You characterize your father’s entering a car he does not own in a NCRS judging event as a “mistake.” Perhaps a six-year NCRS judge (your father) presenting himself at a judging event, and entering a car that he is not the legal title owner of, and using his NCRS member number to enter the car, instead of having his son, also an NCRS member with his own number, who is true and sole legal title owner of the car, and who was also physically present at the judging events so knew the car was not being judged under his own member number, is a “mistake.”

Given the clear and unambiguous NCRS rules, you and your father also ran the risk that NCRS will not construe this the same way you have, of an innocent “mistake” that should be overlooked.

This is a forum for discussion, not just to fawn over photos of our cars. Everyone here has a right to express his or her opinion, preferably in a respectful way that does not personally attack another member. We have enough of that elsewhere on the internet.

In response your opening post, some have expressed their opinion that the NCRS rule requiring the title owner to register the car is a bad rule. Fine. There are members here who have voiced their concurrence with your position, that this was an honest mistake, and the NCRS national leadership should excuse the mistake. Also fine. Maybe they should, and maybe they shouldn’t. I find this all to be an interesting discussion, and I’m glad this forum is a place to express these opinions. I strive for clarity, and found your initial post to be confusing, so I asked for clarification. You instead construed my asking for clarification to be an “attack” (your word, not mine); and, further, although I am admittedly new and inexperienced with NCRS rules and procedures (indeed, with classic Corvettes themselves, having bought my first-ever Corvette just last fall), unlike you and your father, you’ve asked me to post various NCRS rules instead of directly answering why you and your father chose to proceed the way you did, in contravention of NCRS rules.

 

720 words and you still didn't answer their question...

"post the rules regarding Performance Verification and Flight Judging at the same event?"

 

And the prosecution rests your honor. Your witness.

 

Even more words, as I had to correct the typos!

I leave it to other members here to decide whether the question, of why your father, an experienced NCRS judge, entered a car that he did not own, in a judging event. I have not held myself out to be an NCRS expert.

I also leave it up to the members here whether asking why he did that was an “attack.” This is a forum for discussion. I found your initial post to be confusing, and asked for clarification.

 

There is also a failure on OP's behalf to take responsibility for not registering the car properly those three times. "It's NCRS's fault for not detecting my error".

I think I've about run out of interest in this one. Apparently mistakes were made on both sides, Op refuses to accept his, and the NCRS judge refuses to discuss his. Divorce granted, no alimony nor child support required, go your separate ways.

I think the horse is dead.

 

The OP original post states that the car is "co-owned" by this father and son team.....with a legally binding agreement. That means the car is co-owned....both father and son share ownership. So...the NCRS is going to get hung up on the title only having one name when there is an actual seperate legally binding agreement??? So....if that is true, had the father and son team had both of their names on the title....everything would be fine with the NCRS.?? If that is the difference that matters to them....then once again.....rules regulated by officials with not one ounce of common sense. This is not two seperate individuals one with his name on the title....and the other guy just some friend with no ownership rights to the car.....they are CO-OWNERS.

And again...why does any of this matter to an organization that is supposed to be interested in, and created for, original, authentic Corvettes. Instead....they are picking on irrelevant nonsense that has ZERO to do with the car. I would have nothing to do with them BECAUSE of BS like this. And I really cannot understand, nor has any NCRS person here, explained why this ownership issue matters....for any reason. Has there been some widespread cases of people who don't own a particular car, somehow bringing this car to an NCRS event.....and trying to win awards? I doubt it. Fact is,.....unless a car is stolen, someone with physical posession of the car means that 99.9% of the time he is the owner. What other situation exists to the contrary....none. If there is a reason... someone please.explain it.

But anyways.....not sure why I am even posting on this subject, as it means nothing to me. Enough said.

End.

 

Wild right? . After “registration accepted” email in April, car was picked up by Intercity Lines transport, en route to PA for the judging it was accepted. After all this, had to stop shipment, after pick up, and drive it 400 miles home.

 

dude, 80 times , I’ve mentioned in multiple posts my father registered under his NCRS. Number. Read OP. I mean, I can say it again, if that satisfies you

 

same one one that passed chapter judging 99.9 at the current presidents chapter.

same one that passed Performance Verification (Greenville,2022)

same one that got registration accepted NCRS nationals email (see post)

Same one that National judging Chairman won’t accept responsibility for accepting registration 4 previous times

 

What do you need clarification. I’ll send you a PM with my phone number. Feel free to call