New crate engine is now a steam engine....bad problem...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Madison Ms
I broke it in because the specific instructions said to. They probably didn't run the motor more than a few minutes when it was dynoed. I would almost bet it certainly didn't run for 15-20 minutes as the require.
Good point though.....
Good point though.....
Race Director
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
"Another depature when using the Silv-O-Lite Keith Black pistons is piston ring end-gap. These pistons make more horsepower by reflecting heat energy back into the combustion chamber. As a result, the top ring runs hotter and requires more clearance than usual. According to Silv-O-Lite, increasing the ring end-gap does not affect performance or oil control because normal end-gaps are realized at operating temperature.
Conversely, failure to provide sufficient end-gap can cause a portion of the top piston land to break, as the ring ends butt and lock tight in the cylinder. Silv-O-Lite provides a "recommended ring gap" chart with its pistons for varying applications that recommends multiplying the bore diameter by approximately 0.0065 to get the recommended ring end-gap on a normally aspirated non-computer street engine."
To be honest with you about the engine dyno, I doubt it was done as it takes time and time costs money and these internet engine builders don't have alot of either. Unless you have a video and dyno sheets
Conversely, failure to provide sufficient end-gap can cause a portion of the top piston land to break, as the ring ends butt and lock tight in the cylinder. Silv-O-Lite provides a "recommended ring gap" chart with its pistons for varying applications that recommends multiplying the bore diameter by approximately 0.0065 to get the recommended ring end-gap on a normally aspirated non-computer street engine."
To be honest with you about the engine dyno, I doubt it was done as it takes time and time costs money and these internet engine builders don't have alot of either. Unless you have a video and dyno sheets
Last edited by MotorHead; Mar 7, 2006 at 12:14 AM.
Pro
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St. Jude Donor '09, '24
Originally Posted by My White 79
As I dont think i can attach pics yet, here is link. On my 97 LT1 the passage circled in red was blocked off by the intake gasket. Scrapping the gasket off it appeared to be a water passage. If I am wrong educmacate me
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...mproper4ot.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...mproper4ot.jpg
If you look at this picture you will notice that the intakes runners have the red rubber bead running all around their perimeter. This is to actually seal the heads intake runner to the manifold. The water passage that is in the middle of the pic boarded by red in the above link shows only the red rubber on top of that passage. It makes no difference if the manifold has a water port in it or not, it still needs the red rubber all around water passage to seal it from the lifter gallery. No water port in the manifold only means the intake doesn't have water in it your head sure does. Seeing the foam in that water port tells me for sure water was in there. Where is the bottom rubber insert to seal this port to the manifold? The difference in the gasket height between the base of the gasket and the red rubber inserts can't be made up by you tourqueing down the intake. If that was true the rubber inserts would be used on only the top half of the intake ports, houstonvett
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Madison Ms
Originally Posted by houstonvett
If you look at this picture you will notice that the intakes runners have the red rubber bead running all around their perimeter. This is to actually seal the heads intake runner to the manifold. The water passage that is in the middle of the pic boarded by red in the above link shows only the red rubber on top of that passage. It makes no difference if the manifold has a water port in it or not, it still needs the red rubber all around water passage to seal it from the lifter gallery. No water port in the manifold only means the intake doesn't have water in it your head sure does. Seeing the foam in that water port tells me for sure water was in there. Where is the bottom rubber insert to seal this port to the manifold? The difference in the gasket height between the base of the gasket and the red rubber inserts can't be made up by you tourqueing down the intake. If that was true the rubber inserts would be used on only the top half of the intake ports, houstonvett
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Oita, Japan
This thread is hotter than titanium rotors. My opinion, FWIW, detonation didn't cause this. The ring gap theory has a lot of merit. Could the expanding rings crack the cylinder? If they can break the ring land, maybe they could crack the cylinder. The piece that broke off the cylinder could have done quite a bit of damage in there also. Unfortunately, I think you're going to have to send it back.
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Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,770
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From: St Louis MO
Originally Posted by My White 79
As I dont think i can attach pics yet, here is link. On my 97 LT1 the passage circled in red was blocked off by the intake gasket. Scrapping the gasket off it appeared to be a water passage. If I am wrong educmacate me
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...mproper4ot.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...mproper4ot.jpg
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,412
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OK, I read almost every post in this thread. At least everyone by MsVetteMan, but I still don't see any way that this could be your fault. Detonation? Is that it? The dist would have to be turned way far to the left to detonate that badly. In my experience, when you drop the dist in at first with the 12V wire 90 degrees from the front, base timing is normally around 12. And open headers or not, you would have been able to feel serious detonation.
I would make sure to tell Clarence about this forum, so he will realize just about how much business he is going to lose if he doesn't handle this. Read the threads to him especially Motorheads posts, tell him what else it could be. And unless he can prove that this is absolutely positively your fault, he needs to eat this, don't let him off the phone till he agrees to ship you a new one or refund your money. But be hostile as a last resort.
Originally Posted by Older Than Dirt
Nice loophole!! 
Call ole Clarence back and ask him if he would like a 355 ci blueprint sbc shoved up his azz. Thanks to him it's already pre-lubed with a mixture of oil and water.
Call ole Clarence back and ask him if he would like a 355 ci blueprint sbc shoved up his azz. Thanks to him it's already pre-lubed with a mixture of oil and water.
I would make sure to tell Clarence about this forum, so he will realize just about how much business he is going to lose if he doesn't handle this. Read the threads to him especially Motorheads posts, tell him what else it could be. And unless he can prove that this is absolutely positively your fault, he needs to eat this, don't let him off the phone till he agrees to ship you a new one or refund your money. But be hostile as a last resort.
Last edited by enkeivette; Mar 7, 2006 at 02:23 AM.
Team Owner
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From: Here to make friends
St. Jude Donor '11, '16-'17
Originally Posted by MsVetteMan
What happened first? The piston break, or the have to be crack in the cylinder? Or did one cause the other? And freakin' why to begin with?
If the cylinder wall is indeed cracked, maybe you're off the hook MsVetteMan.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Madison Ms
I don't know dude....gonna try to turn the motor over again by hand tomorrow. Couldn't get it to move this evening. Gonna have to get the "little" 300# brother of mine over to yank on this thing!!
Guys, I'm totally confused. Never seen anything like this. This could turn into a finger pointing pizzin contest really quick.
Any hints on how to get the motor to turn over? Tried cranking down on the Crank nut in front of balancer. Sum bitch is rusting up from all the water.
Guys, I'm totally confused. Never seen anything like this. This could turn into a finger pointing pizzin contest really quick.
Any hints on how to get the motor to turn over? Tried cranking down on the Crank nut in front of balancer. Sum bitch is rusting up from all the water.
Safety Car
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From: San Diego CA
I'd delete any posts that would give them any ideas of it being your fault, before referring to this thread.
Even if your timing was too advanced, you would have heard a nasty loud pop over your headers. Also, you wouldn't have been able to even start it with that advanced of a timing.
Anyways, if they don't replace it they're just going to have a lot of bad publicity.
Wait they already just got some by having an engine grenade.
Even if your timing was too advanced, you would have heard a nasty loud pop over your headers. Also, you wouldn't have been able to even start it with that advanced of a timing.
Anyways, if they don't replace it they're just going to have a lot of bad publicity.
Wait they already just got some by having an engine grenade.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by MsVetteMan
I don't know dude....gonna try to turn the motor over again by hand tomorrow. Couldn't get it to move this evening. Gonna have to get the "little" 300# brother of mine over to yank on this thing!!
Guys, I'm totally confused. Never seen anything like this. This could turn into a finger pointing pizzin contest really quick.
Any hints on how to get the motor to turn over? Tried cranking down on the Crank nut in front of balancer. Sum bitch is rusting up from all the water.
Guys, I'm totally confused. Never seen anything like this. This could turn into a finger pointing pizzin contest really quick.
Any hints on how to get the motor to turn over? Tried cranking down on the Crank nut in front of balancer. Sum bitch is rusting up from all the water.
My buddy melted the crank bearing in my bike engine and it was a pain to spin just that one little piston. So don't try too hard, you don't want to strip the threads in the crank and have them use that against you when it comes time for a refund.
Last edited by enkeivette; Mar 7, 2006 at 03:36 AM.
Senior Member since 1492
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From: Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me...
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by Kalway
I'd delete any posts that would give them any ideas of it being your fault, before referring to this thread.
Then you better delete this one too.
...woops. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
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From: New Cumberland PA
Originally Posted by MsVetteMan
I swear I have explained this 3 times now. The middle port on the head is filled in, blank off, doesn't exist. Get it. Doesn't matter if the bottom wasn't sealed as it was only open to the valley, nothing else. Look and follow the red perimeter. The filled port was mearly acting as a part of the valley. Dayum.....
That middle port that members are refering to is not there on Vortec heads. The casting number provided earlier does indicate that they are GM Vortec heads. If my memory is correct, even in other style of heads this was not for water. That middle port allowed for heat to get up to intake, better for cold weather driving.
My first impression when I saw which intake gasket was that the builder was not trying to save money on gaskets. The GM intake gaskets are twice the cost of the Felpro.
I got to agree with Motorhead that there is a chance that the engine may not have been on the dyno. Normally the cam is broken in prior to dyno runs. Dyno sheet doesn't mean sh_t. Anyone could dyno one engine and then give that same sheet to subsequent builds. The cost of engine break-in and dyno runs in my area start at $400.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Butler Pa
Originally Posted by MsVetteMan
Any hints on how to get the motor to turn over? Tried cranking down on the Crank nut in front of balancer. Sum bitch is rusting up from all the water.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by torqvette
It's hard to turn even a freely spinning engine once it's in the car. T.