New crate engine is now a steam engine....bad problem...
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,725
Likes: 5
From: Minnesota
You should be feeling pretty good about at least getting your money back now. You could probably even take them to small claims court and win something for your time with this kind of fraud happening. This forum is really something with guys like TT and Motorhead who really know what they're talking about giving their opinions on this. I'd listen to them before most "experts" in my area any day. 
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 3
From: East Waterboro Maine
Where's the cross hatch?!? IMO there is no way that motor was honed, regardless of whether it was run on the dyno. The cross hatching doesn't dissapear that quick. Can you feel a ridge at the top of the cylinder at all?
I would send Ol' Clarence another e-mail inquiring why you're freshly bored, honed and rebuilt engine exhibits no signs of machining after only an hour of use. I would throw up the BS flag on this one, the engine is not as advertised. This may help to move their decision making process along, and to sway it in your favor.
Looks like pretty shoddy workmanship & false advertising to me. If this problem is a result of their negligence and poor workmanship I would defnitely try to get compensation for your time. It's one this if something happens by chance, this looks more and more like it happened because they cut corners and INTENTIONALLY delivered an inferior product. I have a feeling courts would agree...
I would send Ol' Clarence another e-mail inquiring why you're freshly bored, honed and rebuilt engine exhibits no signs of machining after only an hour of use. I would throw up the BS flag on this one, the engine is not as advertised. This may help to move their decision making process along, and to sway it in your favor.
Looks like pretty shoddy workmanship & false advertising to me. If this problem is a result of their negligence and poor workmanship I would defnitely try to get compensation for your time. It's one this if something happens by chance, this looks more and more like it happened because they cut corners and INTENTIONALLY delivered an inferior product. I have a feeling courts would agree...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 0
From: Madison Ms
I knew the games would start soon....Ole Clarence is out of the picture now as the warranty manager is now dealing with me direct. His reply below.... He sent me a typical dyno sheet (see below), not an actual one for my motor. WTF? Also didn't reply to the sonic testing, or the ring gap question. This might get nasty.
"Until we get the eng back for inspection we will not be able to
adress your questions. Please let us know when the eng is ready to come
back for our inspection. It will need to be assembled, drained of all
fluids and on a pallet with a bag over it. We will then get it picked up
so that we can inspect it. If you give us a copy of your inspection and
questions we can address your questions during our inspection. I will send
you a copy of the dyno sheet that would have been sent with this engine.
Thanks,
Mike Gana
Warranty Supervisor"
"Until we get the eng back for inspection we will not be able to
adress your questions. Please let us know when the eng is ready to come
back for our inspection. It will need to be assembled, drained of all
fluids and on a pallet with a bag over it. We will then get it picked up
so that we can inspect it. If you give us a copy of your inspection and
questions we can address your questions during our inspection. I will send
you a copy of the dyno sheet that would have been sent with this engine.
Thanks,
Mike Gana
Warranty Supervisor"
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
go straight to the Credit Card dispute resolution center and start talking to them and building your documentation.....a certified licensed professional engineer (PE) professional opinion will be hard to dispute...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
? 355" Bore-Hone-Oversize Piston Stamping ?
This motor is apparently marketed as 355 cubic inch ... "Base 355 Vortec" vendor's P/N "BP3550CT"
Most ... not all ... but most aftermarket pistons are very lightly stamped in top of head with size ... i.e. "STD" or "0.030" ... etc. However, for many pistons, if it is NOT stamped ... "STD" is implied. AFAIK, only the more expensive true race pistons have no stamping in top at all ... clearly, KB hypers are not in that class.
Can you see any size stamp in top of piston? With relatively little buildup on piston tops, any stamp should be visible after light "scrubbing" with rag soaked in carb cleaner.
If pistons are NOT +0.030" oversize ... then it ain't a 355" motor! ... as it is apparently advertized. Same goes for bore ... should measure 4.030" +/- 0.0005" if it's truly a thirty over 355" motor. Wish you were right around the corner ... I'd throw my very good bore gages on it ... my best are accurate to one ten-thousandth ... at no charge
Most ... not all ... but most aftermarket pistons are very lightly stamped in top of head with size ... i.e. "STD" or "0.030" ... etc. However, for many pistons, if it is NOT stamped ... "STD" is implied. AFAIK, only the more expensive true race pistons have no stamping in top at all ... clearly, KB hypers are not in that class.
Can you see any size stamp in top of piston? With relatively little buildup on piston tops, any stamp should be visible after light "scrubbing" with rag soaked in carb cleaner.
If pistons are NOT +0.030" oversize ... then it ain't a 355" motor! ... as it is apparently advertized. Same goes for bore ... should measure 4.030" +/- 0.0005" if it's truly a thirty over 355" motor. Wish you were right around the corner ... I'd throw my very good bore gages on it ... my best are accurate to one ten-thousandth ... at no charge
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 0
From: Madison Ms
Well.....here's where I'm at.....
Gotta get the motor out and take it to the machine shop for inspection. Going to make sure the shop owner has the specs on the motor to carefully check each one of the for trueness. He also told me that that he could definetely tell if this was a detonation issue by carefully looking at tall the cylinders and associated components.
I will then have a full case of ammunition, and thus can send the motor back for their inspection.
I did not expect them to say they would refund me without inspection. Hell, I wouldn't do that. I just wanted them to no their weren't dealing with a junk yard shade tree mechanic who would roll over for them. I think they know I'm serious about this now, and they know I am protecting myself.
I am however concerned about possible false advertising issue. No dyno sheet, were cylinders honed?, and is it truly a 355? Why no reply to the sonic testing question? We will soon know the answers to all of these questions.
Gotta get that motor out!! This chit sux....I do plan on taking some more pics of the inside cylinder wall on both sides for you guys to look at. Gonna pull the other head when I get the motor out.
Thanks again for the support, you have no idea what it means to have this many people in your corner!!
Gotta get the motor out and take it to the machine shop for inspection. Going to make sure the shop owner has the specs on the motor to carefully check each one of the for trueness. He also told me that that he could definetely tell if this was a detonation issue by carefully looking at tall the cylinders and associated components.
I will then have a full case of ammunition, and thus can send the motor back for their inspection.
I did not expect them to say they would refund me without inspection. Hell, I wouldn't do that. I just wanted them to no their weren't dealing with a junk yard shade tree mechanic who would roll over for them. I think they know I'm serious about this now, and they know I am protecting myself.
I am however concerned about possible false advertising issue. No dyno sheet, were cylinders honed?, and is it truly a 355? Why no reply to the sonic testing question? We will soon know the answers to all of these questions.
Gotta get that motor out!! This chit sux....I do plan on taking some more pics of the inside cylinder wall on both sides for you guys to look at. Gonna pull the other head when I get the motor out.
Thanks again for the support, you have no idea what it means to have this many people in your corner!!
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 0
From: Madison Ms
Originally Posted by jackson
This motor is apparently marketed as 355 cubic inch ... "Base 355 Vortec" vendor's P/N "BP3550CT"
Most ... not all ... but most aftermarket pistons are very lightly stamped in top of head with size ... i.e. "STD" or "0.030" ... etc. However, for many pistons, if it is NOT stamped ... "STD" is implied. AFAIK, only the more expensive true race pistons have no stamping in top at all ... clearly, KB hypers are not in that class.
Can you see any size stamp in top of piston? With relatively little buildup on piston tops, any stamp should be visible after light "scrubbing" with rag soaked in carb cleaner.
If pistons are NOT +0.030" oversize ... then it ain't a 355" motor! ... as it is apparently advertized. Same goes for bore ... should measure 4.030" +/- 0.0005" if it's truly a thirty over 355" motor. Wish you were right around the corner ... I'd throw my very good bore gages on it ... my best are accurate to one ten-thousandth ... at no charge
Most ... not all ... but most aftermarket pistons are very lightly stamped in top of head with size ... i.e. "STD" or "0.030" ... etc. However, for many pistons, if it is NOT stamped ... "STD" is implied. AFAIK, only the more expensive true race pistons have no stamping in top at all ... clearly, KB hypers are not in that class.
Can you see any size stamp in top of piston? With relatively little buildup on piston tops, any stamp should be visible after light "scrubbing" with rag soaked in carb cleaner.
If pistons are NOT +0.030" oversize ... then it ain't a 355" motor! ... as it is apparently advertized. Same goes for bore ... should measure 4.030" +/- 0.0005" if it's truly a thirty over 355" motor. Wish you were right around the corner ... I'd throw my very good bore gages on it ... my best are accurate to one ten-thousandth ... at no charge
Gonna check that asap....been trying to get some work done today!!
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Well so far they have acted in a professional manner and hopefully they will step up and do what is right and you will get a new motor or a refund 
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 61,415
Likes: 478
From: Here to make friends
St. Jude Donor '11, '16-'17
All of this, plus some of the AR horror stories, just goes to show, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. $2600 for what was advertised sounds like a great price. Even if the motor would have lived, it's life would have been much shorter than something that was built properly. Blueprint is gambling that you'll make it past the warranty period, or make a mistake so that they won't have warranty anything.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 61,415
Likes: 478
From: Here to make friends
St. Jude Donor '11, '16-'17
Olivier had the only good one I know about. I wonder if he's sorry now that he became a repeat customer. I think I'd be lucky to get a stock rebuild out of my machinist for $2600.
Last edited by The_Dude; Mar 8, 2006 at 03:22 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 3
From: East Waterboro Maine
If possible, be there with your mechanic when he disassembles the engine and takes lots and lots of pictures with a good camera. You may need them as evidence.
Good luck, I hope everything works out for you.
P.S. - I think I'm addicted to this thread now, I've been checking in on it about 5 or 6 times a day!
Good luck, I hope everything works out for you.
P.S. - I think I'm addicted to this thread now, I've been checking in on it about 5 or 6 times a day!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
I know you've got a life & work too ... but Please find 15 minutes to check with your Credit Card Provider ... find out exactly what sort of timing elements are involved ... and act accordingly.
Frankly, if I were convinced the vendor is wholly at fault, I would immediately dispute all payment with your CCP ... CCP probably will not credit you any shipping, 3'rd party inspection, your time, loss-of-use, incidental expenses etc. Of note: With virtually no hassle at all, my CCP credited my account for substandard parts I received ... but only the purchase price.
Therefore, if I were convinced of vendor fault, I would NOT permit that motor be picked up for return to vendor unless & until vendor had forwarded full recompense for shipping, 3'rd party inspection, your time, loss-of-use, incidental expenses etc.
Good Luck to you!
Frankly, if I were convinced the vendor is wholly at fault, I would immediately dispute all payment with your CCP ... CCP probably will not credit you any shipping, 3'rd party inspection, your time, loss-of-use, incidental expenses etc. Of note: With virtually no hassle at all, my CCP credited my account for substandard parts I received ... but only the purchase price.
Therefore, if I were convinced of vendor fault, I would NOT permit that motor be picked up for return to vendor unless & until vendor had forwarded full recompense for shipping, 3'rd party inspection, your time, loss-of-use, incidental expenses etc.
Good Luck to you!
Originally Posted by MsVetteMan
Gonna check that asap....been trying to get some work done today!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 14
From: Norfolk VA
Originally Posted by MsVetteMan
Well.....here's where I'm at.....
Gotta get the motor out and take it to the machine shop for inspection. Going to make sure the shop owner has the specs on the motor to carefully check each one of the for trueness. He also told me that that he could definetely tell if this was a detonation issue by carefully looking at tall the cylinders and associated components.
I will then have a full case of ammunition, and thus can send the motor back for their inspection.
I did not expect them to say they would refund me without inspection. Hell, I wouldn't do that. I just wanted them to no their weren't dealing with a junk yard shade tree mechanic who would roll over for them. I think they know I'm serious about this now, and they know I am protecting myself.
I am however concerned about possible false advertising issue. No dyno sheet, were cylinders honed?, and is it truly a 355? Why no reply to the sonic testing question? We will soon know the answers to all of these questions.
Gotta get that motor out!! This chit sux....I do plan on taking some more pics of the inside cylinder wall on both sides for you guys to look at. Gonna pull the other head when I get the motor out.
Thanks again for the support, you have no idea what it means to have this many people in your corner!!
Gotta get the motor out and take it to the machine shop for inspection. Going to make sure the shop owner has the specs on the motor to carefully check each one of the for trueness. He also told me that that he could definetely tell if this was a detonation issue by carefully looking at tall the cylinders and associated components.
I will then have a full case of ammunition, and thus can send the motor back for their inspection.
I did not expect them to say they would refund me without inspection. Hell, I wouldn't do that. I just wanted them to no their weren't dealing with a junk yard shade tree mechanic who would roll over for them. I think they know I'm serious about this now, and they know I am protecting myself.
I am however concerned about possible false advertising issue. No dyno sheet, were cylinders honed?, and is it truly a 355? Why no reply to the sonic testing question? We will soon know the answers to all of these questions.
Gotta get that motor out!! This chit sux....I do plan on taking some more pics of the inside cylinder wall on both sides for you guys to look at. Gonna pull the other head when I get the motor out.
Thanks again for the support, you have no idea what it means to have this many people in your corner!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Originally Posted by jackson
Therefore, if I were convinced of vendor fault, I would NOT permit that motor be picked up for return to vendor unless & until vendor had forwarded full recompense for shipping, 3'rd party inspection, your time, loss-of-use, incidental expenses etc.
Good Luck to you!
Good Luck to you!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 0
From: Madison Ms
Just got off the phone with the CC company dispute manager. He said we can't dispute until I return the motor to them for inspection. He strongly advised that I get a third party inspection first, and the I make copies of this entire thread for further back up documentation.
I have 110 days from the date of purchase to file a dispute. He suggested given them a reasonable time (7working days) and then ask for the verdict on the warranty. At that time if they do indeed deny warranty, then the dispute will kick into gear.
Hopefully with a favorable 3rd party inspection report, I will further strengthen my case. Was even considering getting two different local opinions.
I'll keep you guys informed in this same string of my progress!! I'm wondering if I should let them know what forum I was talking about in my reference's I made in my emails? Probably not, at this time....
Thanks guys!! I'm going to get the motor pulled this weekend for sure!!
Maybe sooner if I get some work done!!
I have 110 days from the date of purchase to file a dispute. He suggested given them a reasonable time (7working days) and then ask for the verdict on the warranty. At that time if they do indeed deny warranty, then the dispute will kick into gear.
Hopefully with a favorable 3rd party inspection report, I will further strengthen my case. Was even considering getting two different local opinions.
I'll keep you guys informed in this same string of my progress!! I'm wondering if I should let them know what forum I was talking about in my reference's I made in my emails? Probably not, at this time....
Thanks guys!! I'm going to get the motor pulled this weekend for sure!!
Maybe sooner if I get some work done!!
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 102
Likes: 4
From: Cambridge Ohio
Originally Posted by Maine Vette
P.S. - I think I'm addicted to this thread now, I've been checking in on it about 5 or 6 times a day!
I can't believe my eyes!
I'm glued to my seat, following this thread!
Hopefully they make good on their warranty.....
Best of luck!!!!
