let us know.
New crate engine is now a steam engine....bad problem...
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Originally Posted by bashcraft
Why? If the engine is built right, it'll be broken in by the time it reaches operating temperature.
If it was built wrong or with bad tolerances taking it easy for 500 miles is not going to make it better. If it was built right by the time the cam is broken in you should be able to run it hard. I have done this with many motors and the yhave provided me with many trouble free miles. This motor sounds like it was a poor build quality, no matter how easy he took it the motor was going to expire.I'm no in suspense to see what the outcome is.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
I honestly can not see what you have done wrong here. This is all over $2600...maybe less because most of the parts can be reused. Send the motor back put them on formal notice. make sure "THEY DOCUMENT EVERYTHING"....NOT YOU. Tell them you want a detailed analysis. Go from there.
Jim
Jim
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
No need to baby the engine, it does more harm than good. If you drive it hard, meaning full throttle acceleration and engine braking you build cylinder pressure which forces the rings into the wall, vastly improving the sealing..and it will rbeak in before the wall glazes up. Failing to do so will result in an engine that has excessive blowby and consumes oil, lost power...even tendency to detonation because of carbon contamination if it's real bad...bottom line, don't baby it. Driving it hard does not mean revving the snot out of it, revs kill engines, cylinder pressure does not.
As for the engine in question here, where are the cracks in the bore? from the fact that you had to rotate the crank to see them I assume they're down the bore? This really does not sound like a hydrolocking problem, the rod would have bent or snapped then and the piston would not be damaged like that also the cracks would be on the top. If it's down the bore it strengthenes the suspecion that it's a ring gap problem most likely related to a tapered bore, seizing in the bottom. Can you take a pic of the cracks???
As for the engine in question here, where are the cracks in the bore? from the fact that you had to rotate the crank to see them I assume they're down the bore? This really does not sound like a hydrolocking problem, the rod would have bent or snapped then and the piston would not be damaged like that also the cracks would be on the top. If it's down the bore it strengthenes the suspecion that it's a ring gap problem most likely related to a tapered bore, seizing in the bottom. Can you take a pic of the cracks???
Racer
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
From: Dunbarton NH
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
No need to baby the engine, it does more harm than good. If you drive it hard, meaning full throttle acceleration and engine braking you build cylinder pressure which forces the rings into the wall, vastly improving the sealing..and it will rbeak in before the wall glazes up. Failing to do so will result in an engine that has excessive blowby and consumes oil, lost power...even tendency to detonation because of carbon contamination if it's real bad...bottom line, don't baby it. Driving it hard does not mean revving the snot out of it, revs kill engines, cylinder pressure does not.
I have never thought of it that way. I will have to agree. When I thing of "Driving it Hard" I automatically think High Revs... Driving hard with out the revs makes a-lot of sense... Thanks!
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Novelty OH
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
No need to baby the engine, it does more harm than good. If you drive it hard, meaning full throttle acceleration and engine braking you build cylinder pressure which forces the rings into the wall, vastly improving the sealing..and it will rbeak in before the wall glazes up. Failing to do so will result in an engine that has excessive blowby and consumes oil, lost power...even tendency to detonation because of carbon contamination if it's real bad...bottom line, don't baby it. Driving it hard does not mean revving the snot out of it, revs kill engines, cylinder pressure does not.
As for the engine in question here, where are the cracks in the bore? from the fact that you had to rotate the crank to see them I assume they're down the bore? This really does not sound like a hydrolocking problem, the rod would have bent or snapped then and the piston would not be damaged like that also the cracks would be on the top. If it's down the bore it strengthenes the suspecion that it's a ring gap problem most likely related to a tapered bore, seizing in the bottom. Can you take a pic of the cracks???
As for the engine in question here, where are the cracks in the bore? from the fact that you had to rotate the crank to see them I assume they're down the bore? This really does not sound like a hydrolocking problem, the rod would have bent or snapped then and the piston would not be damaged like that also the cracks would be on the top. If it's down the bore it strengthenes the suspecion that it's a ring gap problem most likely related to a tapered bore, seizing in the bottom. Can you take a pic of the cracks???
I load everything hard now after cam break in.
-Matt
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 0
From: Madison Ms
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
No need to baby the engine, it does more harm than good. If you drive it hard, meaning full throttle acceleration and engine braking you build cylinder pressure which forces the rings into the wall, vastly improving the sealing..and it will rbeak in before the wall glazes up. Failing to do so will result in an engine that has excessive blowby and consumes oil, lost power...even tendency to detonation because of carbon contamination if it's real bad...bottom line, don't baby it. Driving it hard does not mean revving the snot out of it, revs kill engines, cylinder pressure does not.
As for the engine in question here, where are the cracks in the bore? from the fact that you had to rotate the crank to see them I assume they're down the bore? This really does not sound like a hydrolocking problem, the rod would have bent or snapped then and the piston would not be damaged like that also the cracks would be on the top. If it's down the bore it strengthenes the suspecion that it's a ring gap problem most likely related to a tapered bore, seizing in the bottom. Can you take a pic of the cracks???
As for the engine in question here, where are the cracks in the bore? from the fact that you had to rotate the crank to see them I assume they're down the bore? This really does not sound like a hydrolocking problem, the rod would have bent or snapped then and the piston would not be damaged like that also the cracks would be on the top. If it's down the bore it strengthenes the suspecion that it's a ring gap problem most likely related to a tapered bore, seizing in the bottom. Can you take a pic of the cracks???
The motor is still in the car, and the cracks won't show up with my inexpensive digital. I can't get close enough, but I'll try my wifes camera.
The cracks end about 2" from the top of the bore (top meaning up skyward) and work downword vertically where they get progressively wider and split then getting hidden by the cyclinder. These are very small cracks and are hairline towards the top and widening downward. It does indeed look like the cracks started towards the bottom of the cylinder, and went upwards.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 0
From: Madison Ms
I haven't heard from ole Clarence yet this morning. That's either good or bad. Hopefully he's discussing my situation with his boss!! It's about time to shed ole Clarence anyway, and deal directly with the claims boss anyway.
I'm waiting Clarence.......
I picture Clarence and his Boss in a small enclosed office with no windows scouring the internet for this message string.....lol......
I'm waiting Clarence.......
I picture Clarence and his Boss in a small enclosed office with no windows scouring the internet for this message string.....lol......
Last edited by MsVetteMan; Mar 8, 2006 at 10:54 AM.
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Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by MsVetteMan
The motor is still in the car, and the cracks won't show up with my inexpensive digital. I can't get close enough, but I'll try my wifes camera.
The cracks end about 2" from the top of the bore (top meaning up skyward) and work downword vertically where they get progressively wider and split then getting hidden by the cyclinder. These are very small cracks and are hairline towards the top and widening downward. It does indeed look like the cracks started towards the bottom of the cylinder, and went upwards.
The cracks end about 2" from the top of the bore (top meaning up skyward) and work downword vertically where they get progressively wider and split then getting hidden by the cyclinder. These are very small cracks and are hairline towards the top and widening downward. It does indeed look like the cracks started towards the bottom of the cylinder, and went upwards.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: St Louis Missouri
MsVetteMan
After reading this I’m leaning toward the ring, piston, cylinder clearance problem.
If it was hydrolocked the connecting rod and had gasket would show severe damage.
If it were a foreign object in the combustion chamber you could see a lot of dings to the piston and the valves. The piece of piston that fell off will not ding things as much as a steel nut or bolt, and no cylinder breaking.
If it were quick quenching of the piston you should see a lot of small hairline fractures and no cylinder breaking.
Some things to look for on the clearance issue:
1 The ring gap
2 The width of the ring, and its thickness; the pressure of a ring breaking the cylinder and piston should deform the ring a little.
3 The smoothness of the #6 cylinder; a smoother bottom then top, or vertical scratchs will indicate that the bore was tapered.
4 Thickness of the cylinder wall from top to bottom
It is odd that your cylinder cracks started at the bottom, this is where the lowest pressures are in the cylinder leading to the conclusion that there was a problem with the ring, piston, cylinder clearance.
After reading this I’m leaning toward the ring, piston, cylinder clearance problem.
If it was hydrolocked the connecting rod and had gasket would show severe damage.
If it were a foreign object in the combustion chamber you could see a lot of dings to the piston and the valves. The piece of piston that fell off will not ding things as much as a steel nut or bolt, and no cylinder breaking.
If it were quick quenching of the piston you should see a lot of small hairline fractures and no cylinder breaking.
Some things to look for on the clearance issue:
1 The ring gap
2 The width of the ring, and its thickness; the pressure of a ring breaking the cylinder and piston should deform the ring a little.
3 The smoothness of the #6 cylinder; a smoother bottom then top, or vertical scratchs will indicate that the bore was tapered.
4 Thickness of the cylinder wall from top to bottom
It is odd that your cylinder cracks started at the bottom, this is where the lowest pressures are in the cylinder leading to the conclusion that there was a problem with the ring, piston, cylinder clearance.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: St Louis Missouri
Have you sent these pics to Clarence yet? The top pic shows that vertical crack in the cylinder was perfectly. It looks like a textbook case of an expansion fracture. Also note that the cracks don’t line up with to break in the piston. This supports a clearance problem. I expect that with these pics they will be able to get back to you quickly with information on where they can pick up their boat anchor. I expect they will have to verify that the engine is theirs and will give you the option of a refund or swap.
If you go with the swap see if they will upgrade you.
If you go with the swap see if they will upgrade you.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: St Louis Missouri
Looking at your second set of pics you can easily see the ring deformation through the broken cylinder. You see where that rust is starting to develop and how the outer half of the ring is discolored. These are some indications of extreme stress on the ring.
those small dings were prberbly caused by the piece of the piston before it was shot out the exhaust, a steel piece would have made much more.
those small dings were prberbly caused by the piece of the piston before it was shot out the exhaust, a steel piece would have made much more.
Last edited by Hauq`; Mar 8, 2006 at 11:42 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Just as I thought, the ring butts together, at the top of the stroke it is OK and because of bore taper ( what a suprise ! ) it cracks the cylinder on the downstroke 
