New crate engine is now a steam engine....bad problem...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,101
Likes: 3
From: Cruising somewhere in St. Louis, Missouri
From MsVetteMan:
hmmmm...not sure if this means anything but.....was looking at the cylinder to piston clearance measurements and they look to large. Not sure if this would have any affect or not. KB recommends .0015 to .0020 clearance on bores up to 4.100. MY CLEAREANCES MEASURED AT LEAST .003.
All of the ring gaps were exactly .028.
Bore sizes (from 1 to 8).....4.042, 4.042, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.042.
Also very slight tapered bores on #2 (4.041 to 4.042) and on #8 (same as 2).
According to KB's instructions ring gap should be .0065 x bore. Typically that would be .0065 x 4.041 = .0262. Again a discrepancy with the actual measurement of .028.
In essence, the ring gap settings were to large, not to small. And the piston to wall clearance (.003) exceeded the recommended .0015 to .00210. (On the #8 the tapered cylinder created a clearance difference from .003 at the top to .004 at the bottom.)
We are dealing with extremely small measurements, but thus still improper. Not sure if it even makes a difference? Anyone?
P.S.: Got some new pics of the removed pistons, but kinda hard to post them with my nose still stuck in the corner.
MsVetteMan
hmmmm...not sure if this means anything but.....was looking at the cylinder to piston clearance measurements and they look to large. Not sure if this would have any affect or not. KB recommends .0015 to .0020 clearance on bores up to 4.100. MY CLEAREANCES MEASURED AT LEAST .003.
All of the ring gaps were exactly .028.
Bore sizes (from 1 to 8).....4.042, 4.042, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.042.
Also very slight tapered bores on #2 (4.041 to 4.042) and on #8 (same as 2).
According to KB's instructions ring gap should be .0065 x bore. Typically that would be .0065 x 4.041 = .0262. Again a discrepancy with the actual measurement of .028.
In essence, the ring gap settings were to large, not to small. And the piston to wall clearance (.003) exceeded the recommended .0015 to .00210. (On the #8 the tapered cylinder created a clearance difference from .003 at the top to .004 at the bottom.)
We are dealing with extremely small measurements, but thus still improper. Not sure if it even makes a difference? Anyone?
P.S.: Got some new pics of the removed pistons, but kinda hard to post them with my nose still stuck in the corner.
MsVetteMan
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
Likes: 91
Numbers OK
Originally Posted by luerja
From MsVetteMan:
hmmmm...not sure if this means anything but.....was looking at the cylinder to piston clearance measurements and they look to large. Not sure if this would have any affect or not. KB recommends .0015 to .0020 clearance on bores up to 4.100. MY CLEAREANCES MEASURED AT LEAST .003.
All of the ring gaps were exactly .028.
Bore sizes (from 1 to 8).....4.042, 4.042, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.042.
Also very slight tapered bores on #2 (4.041 to 4.042) and on #8 (same as 2).
According to KB's instructions ring gap should be .0065 x bore. Typically that would be .0065 x 4.041 = .0262. Again a discrepancy with the actual measurement of .028.
In essence, the ring gap settings were to large, not to small. And the piston to wall clearance (.003) exceeded the recommended .0015 to .00210. (On the #8 the tapered cylinder created a clearance difference from .003 at the top to .004 at the bottom.)
We are dealing with extremely small measurements, but thus still improper. Not sure if it even makes a difference? Anyone?
P.S.: Got some new pics of the removed pistons, but kinda hard to post them with my nose still stuck in the corner.
MsVetteMan
hmmmm...not sure if this means anything but.....was looking at the cylinder to piston clearance measurements and they look to large. Not sure if this would have any affect or not. KB recommends .0015 to .0020 clearance on bores up to 4.100. MY CLEAREANCES MEASURED AT LEAST .003.
All of the ring gaps were exactly .028.
Bore sizes (from 1 to 8).....4.042, 4.042, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.041, 4.041.5, 4.042.
Also very slight tapered bores on #2 (4.041 to 4.042) and on #8 (same as 2).
According to KB's instructions ring gap should be .0065 x bore. Typically that would be .0065 x 4.041 = .0262. Again a discrepancy with the actual measurement of .028.
In essence, the ring gap settings were to large, not to small. And the piston to wall clearance (.003) exceeded the recommended .0015 to .00210. (On the #8 the tapered cylinder created a clearance difference from .003 at the top to .004 at the bottom.)
We are dealing with extremely small measurements, but thus still improper. Not sure if it even makes a difference? Anyone?
P.S.: Got some new pics of the removed pistons, but kinda hard to post them with my nose still stuck in the corner.
MsVetteMan
P.S. Even the taper, which shouldn't be there at this stage being a fresh unit, is NOT the reason either for the failure. The only true way to solve the "root" cause of the failure is to return the parts to the mfr. and ask for a report. However, this would be up to the builder. I will tell you the lengths they will go to in order to save their "butts". We recently sent oil out for "analysis". What we didn't tell the "rep" was we took a fresh can of oil, opened it up and poured some into the container which they supplied. We were literally "shocked" to find the sample (new oil) was "loaded" with "contaminants. At that point we sent them a note and explained it all, to which they responded: (quote)
"evidently there was a mix up on our end and we tested the wrong sample! (End quote) So much for that test!!!
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 248
Likes: 1
From: Apopka Florida
Sorry to see this happen. I've been in the same situations before. If you paid for it with a credit card or debit. Dispute the charges until the builder fixes the problems. Your Credit card company will credit back the money until they fix the problem. Just contact them and they will ask you to fax over the problems on a writen letter. The builder has no choice but to fix it or get back charged for the amount of purchase. Good luck, Matt
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by turtlevette
i wonder if its easy to make a forged piston run tight enough not to burn a quart of oil every 500 miles?
I used the TRW forged pistons on 2 different rebuilds and broke them both times. The piston side skirts would break off and make a hell of a racket. The piston had an oil slot instead of holes which made them very weak.
I used the TRW forged pistons on 2 different rebuilds and broke them both times. The piston side skirts would break off and make a hell of a racket. The piston had an oil slot instead of holes which made them very weak.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 9
From: staten island ny
I dont know, catastrophic engine failure without a definite reason? I would think it has to either boil down to shoddy work or poor quality on the parts. As long as it's not Ms Vettes fault which with even my limited brain capacity I cant see it being that way.
ESU
ESU
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 9
From: staten island ny
Oh yeah, I may be one of the worlds most skeptical people, 20 yrs in the NYPD will do that to a guy, but I dont believe for 1 minute that crock about that engine being shipped from another engine shop as part of a shipping mistake or whatever. That story stinks! Too bad we dont have a forum member nearby that Goodmans place to snoop around a little.
ESU
PS take the money and buy elsewhere, even if they have been on the up and up so far.
ESU
PS take the money and buy elsewhere, even if they have been on the up and up so far.
Pro
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 749
Likes: 2
From: Gabriola BC
What are the exact measurement of the pistons. I am guessing most of them will be 4.038 or so and if you add the measurements of the bores, it would be making more clearance than the pistons were designed for.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by 63mako
TTT This isn't on page one.
now get him out of that corner and let's continue this thread.....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,101
Likes: 3
From: Cruising somewhere in St. Louis, Missouri
Originally Posted by RedBad1979
just noticed this and had to bump it again.....
now get him out of that corner and let's continue this thread.....
now get him out of that corner and let's continue this thread.....
Almost perfect timing if it was going to happen (time out that is). I have posted what we can and by the time marshall engines get the engine back and evaluates it MsVetteMan will be back online. Until then post are far and few between, but doing what we can. I always post ASAP to keep all up to date.
jim
Senior Member since 1492
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 87,936
Likes: 156
From: Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me...
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by kevinator80
There was some bashing of cars for sale about a year ago. It got outa hand. I think maybe the mods remember it also, thus the ten day break.
He may have had to appologize to the offended party too. Make nicey.
Some guys just won't do that if they think they were justified in their remarks. Some never come back from their 10 day vacation.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,049
Likes: 134
From: St. Clair Shores MI
C2 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
2017 C2 of the Year Finalist
Senior Member since 1492
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 87,936
Likes: 156
From: Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me...
St. Jude Donor '09
That thread is from last year?
I know in the C4 & C5 cars for sale sections you cannot tell the seller anything about his sale. You cannot comment when the seller complains about not getting any response because the price is too high or unreasonable etc.
This isn't a public forum.
I know in the C4 & C5 cars for sale sections you cannot tell the seller anything about his sale. You cannot comment when the seller complains about not getting any response because the price is too high or unreasonable etc.
This isn't a public forum.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,887
Likes: 1
From: Hill AFB area Utah
Originally Posted by Donny Brass
I'm still watching to see what happens
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by Donny Brass
