Front suspension and steering
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,294
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From: Charlotte NC
The aftermarket ones are not exactly the same as the origianls. I have NOT heard that anyone is selling the EXACT steering coupling ( rag-joint).
YES...you can re-kit yours...but I have not bought the kit from ECKLERS...I get mine from DORMAN and I get it from an auto parts store. The problem with the Dorman kit. Is if you want to be super picky like me. The two studs that you remove to service the rubber round disc. One of those studs are correct ...and are like what yous came with. I knwo it is made to be bolted in place while yours were riveted. The other stud they offer is quite smaller. It will work...but I am a visual kind guy and want it to at least look as close to factory correct as possible. So..I have to buy two kits when I buy them.
DUB
YES...you can re-kit yours...but I have not bought the kit from ECKLERS...I get mine from DORMAN and I get it from an auto parts store. The problem with the Dorman kit. Is if you want to be super picky like me. The two studs that you remove to service the rubber round disc. One of those studs are correct ...and are like what yous came with. I knwo it is made to be bolted in place while yours were riveted. The other stud they offer is quite smaller. It will work...but I am a visual kind guy and want it to at least look as close to factory correct as possible. So..I have to buy two kits when I buy them.
DUB
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
A rebuild of your ragjoint (flex coupling between steering column and steering box) is likely as good as any aftermarket replacement.
However, in either case, you need to make sure that there is electrical conductivity between the input and output side of the ragjoint. Why? Because that is the ground path for the horn. The original ragjoint coupling disc had wire mesh built into it so that electricity would conduct through that joint. Many discs in the replacement kits DO NOT have any way of conducting electricity through them. So, you have to install a short strip of copper braid (ground strap material) from one side to the other in order to make your horn functional. Since the part flexes as you turn it, regular wire won't last long. But, you can buy a short ground-strap at most auto part stores. Or, if you do any electrical soldering, you can use a strip of Solder-Wick as that strap and put lugs on either end to connect it to the joint.
Just be aware that this is an issue with almost all of the replacement ragjoints and kits.
However, in either case, you need to make sure that there is electrical conductivity between the input and output side of the ragjoint. Why? Because that is the ground path for the horn. The original ragjoint coupling disc had wire mesh built into it so that electricity would conduct through that joint. Many discs in the replacement kits DO NOT have any way of conducting electricity through them. So, you have to install a short strip of copper braid (ground strap material) from one side to the other in order to make your horn functional. Since the part flexes as you turn it, regular wire won't last long. But, you can buy a short ground-strap at most auto part stores. Or, if you do any electrical soldering, you can use a strip of Solder-Wick as that strap and put lugs on either end to connect it to the joint.
Just be aware that this is an issue with almost all of the replacement ragjoints and kits.
Last edited by 7T1vette; Oct 6, 2016 at 11:02 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,294
Likes: 2,754
From: Charlotte NC
A rebuild of your ragjoint (flex coupling between steering column and steering box) is likely as good as any aftermarket replacement.
However, in either case, you need to make sure that there is electrical conductivity between the input and output side of the ragjoint. Why? Because that is the ground path for the horn. The original ragjoint coupling disc had wire mesh built into it so that electricity would conduct through that joint. Many discs in the replacement kits DO NOT have any way of conducting electricity through them. So, you have to install a short strip of copper braid (ground strap material) from one side to the other in order to make your horn functional. Since the part flexes as you turn it, regular wire won't last long. But, you can buy a short ground-strap at most auto part stores. Or, if you do any electrical soldering, you can use a strip of Solder-Wick as that strap and put lugs on either end to connect it to the joint.
Just be aware that this is an issue with almost all of the replacement ragjoints and kits.
However, in either case, you need to make sure that there is electrical conductivity between the input and output side of the ragjoint. Why? Because that is the ground path for the horn. The original ragjoint coupling disc had wire mesh built into it so that electricity would conduct through that joint. Many discs in the replacement kits DO NOT have any way of conducting electricity through them. So, you have to install a short strip of copper braid (ground strap material) from one side to the other in order to make your horn functional. Since the part flexes as you turn it, regular wire won't last long. But, you can buy a short ground-strap at most auto part stores. Or, if you do any electrical soldering, you can use a strip of Solder-Wick as that strap and put lugs on either end to connect it to the joint.
Just be aware that this is an issue with almost all of the replacement ragjoints and kits.
I have seen the ground strap often times be snapped in half and repair it when I do them. I completely forgot about it. Glad you mentioned it.
DUB
Racer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 374
Likes: 42
From: Coldwater Mi
(per jb78L-82) "I would highly recommend rebuilding blueprinting your OEM box only...no rebuilds"
You say "rebuilding blueprinting....no rebuilds"...that's confusing.
I do all my own work I can, but I need clarification here, please!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,451
Likes: 974
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
This thread back when I had my box done might help explain more..
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ueprinted.html
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,445
Likes: 353
From: Athens GA
St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
Just to add more fuel to the discussion......you could change your steering box to a Borgeson unit and get rid of the leaky control valve.
That is my route right now.
Found a great deal on Amazon for the box through a company called Mudflaps...
Check it out.
Good luck with whichever way you go.
Dennis
That is my route right now.
Found a great deal on Amazon for the box through a company called Mudflaps...
Check it out.
Good luck with whichever way you go.
Dennis
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Borgeson
I checked on ecklers and I see they have a rebuild kit for the rag joint. Has anyone used this versus doing a full replacement? If so, does it come with all the parts and instructions to do the job and is that as good as a full replacement, obviously a lot less at about $15 instead of $65.
I have one fitted to my '74 coupe and the difference to the old set-up is amazing. It actually steers like a modern car! I have sold several of these in Australia and all of my customers have thanked me for the vast improvement the Borgeson box made to their cars. Now, jb78L-82 raves about the good blueprinting work done by Gary R. and I do not disagree with him, but you still end up with a 70 year old power assisted steering design that in my opinion has no place on a modern sports car.
Choose wisely.
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 89
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From: Mobile Alabama
Great info thanks. I definitely like the idea of the borgeson box, but I think for the money right now to get the car drivable, I'll look at doing a rebuilt if needed but will keep this in mind for an upgrade later. As for the ground through the ragjoint I never would have thought about that. Does anyone have a diagram or pictures of how you did the grounding strap through the joint.
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Joined: Sep 2016
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From: Mobile Alabama
Well after checking parts a bit more today after installing a new alternator, I see my gearbox has excessive play, so I guess I will be adding that to the list. Is the box for factory power steering the same as for manual steering? I have seen some conflicting information when looking for parts. I know there is a control valve that the lines go to instead of the gear box like on newer cars.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,445
Likes: 353
From: Athens GA
St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
Well after checking parts a bit more today after installing a new alternator, I see my gearbox has excessive play, so I guess I will be adding that to the list. Is the box for factory power steering the same as for manual steering? I have seen some conflicting information when looking for parts. I know there is a control valve that the lines go to instead of the gear box like on newer cars.
I have the steering box off my power assisted 75 that you can have CHEAP!
Let me know.
Dennis
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Joined: Sep 2016
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From: Mobile Alabama
I'm located in Mobile, AL. I'm looking at the option of the borgeson box, but need to do a little more research. PM me what would be "cheap" so I can consider that as well.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 89
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From: Mobile Alabama
So, for those that have done the Borgeson box, I see you have to replace the hoses, drag link and obviously the rag joint. My question that I have not found the answer to yet is, will the pitman arm from the factory power steering setup work or do I have to get pitman arm for manual steering since the drag link is technically for manual steering?
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2015
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From: NSW, Australia
C3 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Pitman arm is the same (use yours). You need either a manual drag link or the adaptor for your drag link. It's an easy install and I really like mine. Faster ratio and better feel than the standard power assist, looks right in the car, and cost is competitive compared to a complete rebuild of the standard system. I did need to modify the clutch z bar slightly to clear (rebent it to pick up the other side of the clutch pedal pushrod), but most people don't seem to have that issue.
Last edited by Metalhead140; Oct 10, 2016 at 08:38 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2016
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From: Mobile Alabama
So if I'm understanding you correctly all I need is the gearbox, rag joint, hoses and adapter. I don't need to replace the drag link if I get the adapter correct? I can then remove the old hoses, control valve and piston right?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
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From: Crossville TN
Or, you can replace and add lube to the existing box and see if some of the slack can be removed with the adjustment (in top plate).
If the internal components are worn such that you cannot remove slack at the center of travel without causing binding when steering is on right or on left, then the box needs to be rebuilt or replaced. And, IMO, rebuilding is better than replacement.
If you are willing to attempt re-lubing and adjustment, PM me and I will provide some guidance. Not a difficult process...but involved. Or, you can send your box to a good rebuilder and have it come back as good (or better) than new.
I've never driven a C3 with a Borgenson box, but I can't imagine that it would be that much better than a stock box in good condition....and you don't have to change a bunch of other stuff!
If the internal components are worn such that you cannot remove slack at the center of travel without causing binding when steering is on right or on left, then the box needs to be rebuilt or replaced. And, IMO, rebuilding is better than replacement.
If you are willing to attempt re-lubing and adjustment, PM me and I will provide some guidance. Not a difficult process...but involved. Or, you can send your box to a good rebuilder and have it come back as good (or better) than new.
I've never driven a C3 with a Borgenson box, but I can't imagine that it would be that much better than a stock box in good condition....and you don't have to change a bunch of other stuff!
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,939
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From: NSW, Australia
C3 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Nothing much to change to fit the Borgeson. Unbolt the box, remove lines, swap the pitman arm to the new box, collapse the column a little, bolt it all back in. I've no doubt the stock setup works well when set up perfectly, but the assist is much nicer feeling with the Borgeson (doesn't get as light at speed), and the ratio is faster so it feels more responsive. And avoids all the power assist stuff hanging under the car looking messy and with more potential leak locations.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Athens GA
St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
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From: Mobile Alabama
The rebuild it myself sounds like a possible option. Can you give me some basic info on what is involved like any specialty tools etc. Also are there kits for this or do I have to buy individual parts as needed.