i feel special
yet another 160* thermostat thread
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge, La
I'm going to show off, I learned too. The easiest way is to hold ALT while typing, on the right-side numerical keypad, 248 You can also find symbols on the character map, All programs> accessories> system tools> character map. Pretty cool stuff. Also, look at the website www.howtotype.net.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Heat transfer is more efficient at larger TDs ( temperature differences )
All things staying equal .... fan size , radiator area, fluid flow rates...
Take a 100 degree day ( for round numbers ) and a 200 degree antifreeze temperature , you might get a 50 degree drop between radiator input and output temperatures. Temp drop of 50 degrees x flow rate = some specific BTU transfer from fluid to air.
Drop the input temperature to 160 degrees and you might see a output temperature of ( for this example ) 130 degrees.
You have just lowered the outlet temp by 20 degrees, but the hotter radiator is still removing an additional twenty degrees x flow rate more heat.
Under "marginal" conditions, higher temp thermostats can compensate for inadequate air flow / heat transfer in a system that is running at it's maximum efficiency.
If the heat source ( engine ) BTUs are larger than the ability of the radiator to remove the heat at 160 degrees, then by going to a 180 degree thermostat , the radiator / heat transfer efficiency is improved.
Maybe enough to prevent boiling the coolant ( which is the ultimate goal in the first place. ) Long-term though, the radiator and engine will eventually reach a temperature equilibrium regardless of the thermostat rating.
If you have a over-sized ( or proper sized ) radiator, removing the thermostat lowers both the heat transfer rates AND lowers the overall temperatures.
Don in Huntsville
and yes, I am a rocket scientist
All things staying equal .... fan size , radiator area, fluid flow rates...
Take a 100 degree day ( for round numbers ) and a 200 degree antifreeze temperature , you might get a 50 degree drop between radiator input and output temperatures. Temp drop of 50 degrees x flow rate = some specific BTU transfer from fluid to air.
Drop the input temperature to 160 degrees and you might see a output temperature of ( for this example ) 130 degrees.
You have just lowered the outlet temp by 20 degrees, but the hotter radiator is still removing an additional twenty degrees x flow rate more heat.
Under "marginal" conditions, higher temp thermostats can compensate for inadequate air flow / heat transfer in a system that is running at it's maximum efficiency.
If the heat source ( engine ) BTUs are larger than the ability of the radiator to remove the heat at 160 degrees, then by going to a 180 degree thermostat , the radiator / heat transfer efficiency is improved.
Maybe enough to prevent boiling the coolant ( which is the ultimate goal in the first place. ) Long-term though, the radiator and engine will eventually reach a temperature equilibrium regardless of the thermostat rating.
If you have a over-sized ( or proper sized ) radiator, removing the thermostat lowers both the heat transfer rates AND lowers the overall temperatures.
Don in Huntsville
and yes, I am a rocket scientist
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Heat transfer is more efficient at larger TDs ( temperature differences )
All things staying equal .... fan size , radiator area, fluid flow rates...
Take a 100 degree day ( for round numbers ) and a 200 degree antifreeze temperature , you might get a 50 degree drop between radiator input and output temperatures. Temp drop of 50 degrees x flow rate = some specific BTU transfer from fluid to air.
Drop the input temperature to 160 degrees and you might see a output temperature of ( for this example ) 130 degrees.
You have just lowered the outlet temp by 20 degrees, but the hotter radiator is still removing an additional twenty degrees x flow rate more heat.
Under "marginal" conditions, higher temp thermostats can compensate for inadequate air flow / heat transfer in a system that is running at it's maximum efficiency.
If the heat source ( engine ) BTUs are larger than the ability of the radiator to remove the heat at 160 degrees, then by going to a 180 degree thermostat , the radiator / heat transfer efficiency is improved.
Maybe enough to prevent boiling the coolant ( which is the ultimate goal in the first place. ) Long-term though, the radiator and engine will eventually reach a temperature equilibrium regardless of the thermostat rating.
If you have a over-sized ( or proper sized ) radiator, removing the thermostat lowers both the heat transfer rates AND lowers the overall temperatures.
Don in Huntsville
and yes, I am a rocket scientist
All things staying equal .... fan size , radiator area, fluid flow rates...
Take a 100 degree day ( for round numbers ) and a 200 degree antifreeze temperature , you might get a 50 degree drop between radiator input and output temperatures. Temp drop of 50 degrees x flow rate = some specific BTU transfer from fluid to air.
Drop the input temperature to 160 degrees and you might see a output temperature of ( for this example ) 130 degrees.
You have just lowered the outlet temp by 20 degrees, but the hotter radiator is still removing an additional twenty degrees x flow rate more heat.
Under "marginal" conditions, higher temp thermostats can compensate for inadequate air flow / heat transfer in a system that is running at it's maximum efficiency.
If the heat source ( engine ) BTUs are larger than the ability of the radiator to remove the heat at 160 degrees, then by going to a 180 degree thermostat , the radiator / heat transfer efficiency is improved.
Maybe enough to prevent boiling the coolant ( which is the ultimate goal in the first place. ) Long-term though, the radiator and engine will eventually reach a temperature equilibrium regardless of the thermostat rating.
If you have a over-sized ( or proper sized ) radiator, removing the thermostat lowers both the heat transfer rates AND lowers the overall temperatures.
Don in Huntsville
and yes, I am a rocket scientist
How can you (did you) determine that the longer interval for heating of the lower (or no) thermostat system would take LESS time to boil over than the one reaching "temp" faster (where it's removing more heat to cool temps down where the low/no system is running).
If the time required for the low/no stat system to get to operating temp is LONGER than the one with a thermostat,,,,and, if heat transfer is/would be the same -- once they reach that same operating temp, how does the system taking longer time to get to operating temp overtake/pass the thermostated system and boil over first?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
BTW: My stupidazz Dell doesn't have a numeric keypad. Using the alt (or ctrl) key with the top number keys does not work to create any of the special ASCII characters.
Just another reason to add to my disgust with Dell.
160-degrees!
Just another reason to add to my disgust with Dell.
160-degrees!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
BTW, what is a, "Therm"? If you are going for abbreviations, BTU is shorter than Therm. 
Last edited by jfb; Nov 5, 2010 at 12:36 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
( 1 ) "how much radiator" and "how much engine".
( 2 ) consider that the radiator "averages" out the heat load.
The engine, depending on the load and right foot, varies greatly
in BTU production and thermal lag. ( usual cause of boil-over )
If a thermostat/radiator combination can hold temps at 180... again averaged over time, temps might not peak and belch coolant.
At some point, thermostat or not, the system will find its peak temperature. Hopefully that temp is below the radiator's capacity.
Don
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,772
Likes: 177
From: Rolla Missouri
2021 C4 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist
St. Jude Donor '10 thru '25
You can still type any symbol you want by using the Character Map program built into XP and Vista. Not sure if it's in Windows 7 or not.
Check this like out.
http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/i...s/charmap.html
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 8
From: Westerly RI
See my post, #57 on this thread, to type special characters w/o numeric keypad.
Last edited by sailorsteve; Nov 5, 2010 at 03:56 PM.
