I've installed over a dozen Bosch III sets, TPI vette's and F Body's, LSx, 2 cadillac's, lots of LTx and my personal LT4 has been running them for years, in fact my LT4 was the first one with design III Bosch, have had no problems at all from any of them, partial throttle response is amazing, and mileage went up in ALL installs.

 

I have been with the B3's for a while now.
As soon as I put them in it fired right up. No drama. Not bad for a 93 stroker going from 30#SVO's to 42# Bosch 3.
Tuner tuned it so well first time up it ran with ac on and when ac was turned on engine didnt even flinch. This is with an automatic and in gear.
Jon is a rare breed in todays automotive world, a business owner that actually works with the customers through the end. Not just a sale and move on kind of guy.
he has cool cars too...

 

I don't doubt cars will run richer or leaner with an injector swap. Because of the variance in manufacturing, even a like injector can't be expected to perform EXACTLY the same as a prior set. And, we both know the ECM's are designed to compensate for a reasonable amount of variance. If not, no one would be able to run E10 in their car.

The reasonable question/conclusion is whether a certain brand/type creates enough variance as to cause malfuntion or worse...damage. The obvious conclusion is too many sets of B3's are being successfully run to conclude any variance has a significant effect. Where's the blown motors? Where's the lean AFR issues? And, it's not just one or two people successfully running them, we've seen in this poll and another thread that other tuners have been successfully running B3's in cars they've built/tuned.

In my logs, fuel consumption ranges from 10-50g/sec for normal driving range. That's with a 383. Even a stock 350 is not going to have it's normal driving range as indicated above. Even if you're talking about a different scale/measure than I reference, I go back to my first point -- citing real world SUCCESSFUL operation. I would also add that tuning charts posted on various forums show AFR's capable of existing significantly leaner w/o problem. (This is under light load condition.) Moreover, GM built in a hwy mode that allow intentional leaning for light loads. Add this to the tolerance of the ECM and I find further evidence to support why any discrepancy is small enough to avoid problem(s).

If you have links to any latency/flow/manufacturing data for the Bosch III vs OEM injectors, I would ask you to post those links. As the purpose of this poll and a recent thread are to address/solve any problem, that would be the most helpful approach. Without it, I (personally) would consider your sample of experience not sufficiently large enough to negate the positive feedback we're seeing (and expect to see).

 

I will say we are all very lucky to have FIC and it's owner Jon to help us sort out our fuel injector issues/ problems.

My mulitecs were replaced w/ Ford pieces years ago (not bought from FIC) and have been trouble free with immediate start up when cold.

 

Wow 100% feedback, engle there is not a product produced in the world that has 100% positive reviews. What a joke! Guys like you ruin good forums, that's why we left here.

 

Allot of "i" products from apple are pretty close to 100% and the Green Egg grill, oh yeah.... Time to cook some steaks.

 

Gregg you keep killin' these threads with your "input" - why don't you just let others post for awhile.

Good Lord, I didn't even mention the guy in this thread. This thread should be about just BOSCH 3 injectors not FIC....more than 1 company sells these....I don't care where people got'em from.

 

I'm running BIII's and if I had it all to do over I would have purchased another brand/type injector. But, I would still have made my purchase from FIC.

 

This isn't about me being right or wrong. Post some evidence of a problem. Show links, Show scans, or quit with the snide comments.

Mick posted something that doesn't make sense from my personal (and local) tuning efforts. I think any discrepancy in B3 flow is sufficiently low in the response curve that's it should be considered out of normal operating range. Asking for explanation/proof is completely reasonable -- especially if ancillary complaint is inconsistent.

Too many people are happy to see one or two posts advocating for, or complaining against a given product, that they're unwilling to push for a better explanation.

I would submit negative posts about Comp Pro Mags in the past year/two would qualify. I would submit that negative posts about a spring incident doesn't constitute a trend/conclusion. The same is true for a remote issue raised about the B3 injectors.

Good or Bad (as my OP states), this thread is to make a determination. For anyone thinking I'm trying to derail a topic needs to take reading/comprehension lessons.

 

what do you not like about them.. Remember our warranty you can always swap them out for full credit.

 

Although I'm not 100% satisfied with the BIII's, this is the reason my business still goes to FIC.

In full disclosure, I am not running stock size injectors.
Jon, in my experience the BIII's didn't respond to conventional tuning, and although with much help from yourself the car runs really well just not perfect. Just my opinion, our PCM's are not fast enough to respond to the newer technology BIII's. And one last note, my laptop died before the Battery Offsets were available for my injectors. This could/should make a difference in my tune.


-Mike

 

FICINJECTORS... The solution I see to this is expand your selection even more, unless you yourself feel or know that you only sell what you are confident with.

FIC is unbeatable in customer service either by him or his crew they will help with any questions, and people seem to be happy with his product (especially since most are stock replacements). I bought them and installed them, never used them much, because I went with a whole different set up that came with different injectors.

I do trust MSEVEN and a few others here that go WAY deeper in to the computers on these cars than 98-99% of the members here or other forums. In fact I recall Jon being up front with me about tuning if you are going to be running something insane,(I am still not) so he did use discretion with me and probably others by asking what applications they will be used for and what sizes are needed etc to plan for load etc.

This was a few years back, so maybe things changed, but basically that means he did not try to ram the Bosch name down my throat and get a check, but he informed me first and that is what matters.

 

well, I had a miss and had two injectors that were bad. I bought the injectors from Jon and it runs great and idles smooth.

 

If the world were ideal, we could stipulate that Koolvette and Engle are two of the negative votes. Neither liked the product and went a different route. If scans, video or other feedback is available, I invite them to post that. Otherwise, lets stop the games. You asked me to stay out of this. I would suggest the same unless you have something technical to contribute.

My reason for starting and being in this thread was to help Jon determine if there might be a problem with the B3 injectors in all OR specific applications. That's why dissatisfaction requires feedback. A negative vote w/o it should be considered under the realm of general consumer attitudes. As I've spent over 20yrs in the data side of analysis, I had a couple of ideas how to post (and screen) for significant problems. This is my attempt (on Jon's behalf).

I did make a major error because I did not emphasize the primary focus of the poll was to isolate feedback from owners with stock motors who used B3's as a replacement. Though a recent thread focuses on a possible issue for TPI 85-91 setups, all C4 feedback is appreciated.

Jon even proposed that a start-up issue may be present for the 90-91 model years only. For 85-88 model years, the CSI is as much responsible for cold start success. The 89 model year is also unique.

I also have personal interest in the outcome as I've maintained an interest in the B3 solution for my modified setup. (Everyone who mods likes to look for "better" solutions. In my case, it would be for an even smooth idle and/or better MPG.) I also have had a couple of local guys ask for assistance with diagnosis and tuning. I'd like to know more about the B3 viability for their stock setups.

Again, this poll should focus on B3's for stock setups. Tuners who've scanned and observed direct replacement from Multec to B3's may provide the best insight.

Finally, please don't consider my participation in this thread as bias. I'm here -- like everyone else -- to ask questions, sift thru the feedback, and come to a personal conclusion. You're free to make yours. I'm free to make mine.

 

Installed a couple sets of jon's injectors in different cars with know injector problems. Both cars problem sloved. No long crank no problems. I read on here all the time about long cranks and people priming the pump a couple of times in my professional opinion if you have to prime the pump it has nothing to do with the injectors you might want to check fuel volume along with pressure. I have been in this bussiness a long long time and I have though about this issue way before this thread and I really do not know how it would be possible for the bosh injectors to increase starting times in stock configeration as long as the rateings are close to stock injectors. Lets face it if they are rated the same all they do is spray fuel when they are supposed to just like oem injectors. now if you have messed with tune or engine you have opened up a all new can of warms.. Just my opinion..

 

I put a set in a year ago when I was troubleshooting a problem that turned out to be an optispark. The engine runs fine with the injectors but the pulse width is higher with the Bosch 3s than stock so the fuel mileage calculation is WAY off on the instrument panel. It is not that important of a thing but is just another thing that doesn't work making the car feel like an old used car.

No performance difference. I haven't ran the gas mileage numbers but I don't think they are worse there. Even so I am thinking about having my originals cleaned and then putting them back in.

Any ideas on that one??

Matt

 

Seems like a good idea. If you still have the stock tune; the OEMs injectors should work best. Plus your instrument panel will be accurate.

 

I have a 92 LT1 with a 6-speed and about 200000 miles. It is all stock except for the injectors and the MSD opti that I just put in last week (no funny business with the timing either). I drive it EVERYWHERE. When I was troubleshooting the problem that led me to buying the injectors, I was taking data from the ECM after each change so I have the differences between the original injectors and the Bosch ones well documented somewhere. I will try to dig it up and post it somehow for you.

What I can say is this:
1. Didn't fix my problem. This is not necessarily a bad thing.... the injectors were not malfunctioning in the first place.

2. They did not pick up my performance, at least not that I can tell. I have no dyno or g-tech data to back this up.

3. They work fine, engine runs good and starts like you would expect it to.

4. Data shows my injector pulse width is higher with the new injectors. This leads the computer to think it is using more fuel than it was before. The fuel mileage reading on my dash is about 10 miles to a gallon off. If these new injectors are supposed to flow the same rate of fuel as the stock ones then I should be getting really bad gas mileage.... I am not, so something is not correct there. I have not calculated actual gas mileage.

I am not upset with them, I am not completely happy either, but they work well. When I get around to it I might put the stockers back in, apparently they were working fine.

Matt

 

I think the tune is stock. I bought the car used and I have good reason that the EPROM has been flashed at some point. The skip shift is disabled. I do not know how to check if anything else is modified.

Matt

 

Mat. The 92 had 22 originally , a lot of guys put in 24's they were black not grey Multecs. If so you got 22's from me. What color are the Stock ones and give me the pn so I can see if they are 22 or 24. If the computer was reflashed and you use a 22 the mpg calcs will be way off. We will switch them for you for a 24 no charge. It only takes 20 min to change them out so it's worth a try.