Put a 2500 stAll in it and it will drive like stock you won't even notice the difference and it will run hard when asked. Don't worry about the cranking compression it will be fine.

 

thanks for the reply, I realize it isn't everybody's favorite thing to completely rethink the drivetrain from scratch. However, I feel that given the cost of 02-04 style LS engines these days (almost free), it makes sense to set the car up to take one, nearly regardless of the cost.

I am sure there are mount kits and fabricate-avoidance packages available to do this, given the popularity of the platform. There is even a free how-to-stand alone wiring harness for it (LT1swap.com)

For example, I had a 95 nissan 240sx. No way was this car designed to have an LS engine installed, nor a 4l80e etc...
However, they sell so many adapters for this Nissan car that it was impossible not to validate the procedure with math ($$ vs performance). I found that when I adjusted the price of the iron engines to below $1000, it became the only viable option (as opposed to sr20det/2jzgte/rb26/?). After calling a couple local junkyards I found more longblocks that I could handle, all willing to deliver to my doorstep. So I grabbed a couple spare engines for peanuts and used a motor-mount kit to get the engine in the car, took 2 days to make a 4l80e mount and I was driving in less than 3months, BWS364 to supply the airflow/time, LT1swap for the wiring, and the rest is basic mechanical know-how.

If I can do it in a backyard on grass and dirt, to a Nissan chassis, with no air tools/lift, then somebody else can sure as heck do it to a Chevrolet given similar circumstances. I just want to encourage budget-performance minds to check what newer technology is available for a fraction of what it used to cost... You get something new like that under the hood, nevermind the performance; just having an efficient, quiet engine is sometimes worth it.

 

You know the more I think about the more the LPE 219 cam keeps drawing me in. I could put a higher stall converter in. Maybe between 2400-2600. I noticed my tranny developed a pretty good leak the other day. Maybe a good excuse to pull the tranny and replace some seals. I think I made my decision.

 

My fear would be that I don't know what the engine has been through. If my neighbor has a decent mileage truck that took a hit in the rear and the engine is working in good order but the rear is a mess, sure. OTOH, if the engine was rode hard and put away wet, I'd definitely be leery at any price. For a junkyard engine, NFW would I put it in my car unless I was selling it without a through look over by a trusted machine shop. I really don't want to pull it out again after 20000 miles.

If I had a 3rd Gen F-body, sure. OTOH, the C4 has a couple of other things that will need to play nice with the LS ECM. My FX3 changes position based on speed. Will it be as simple as splicing a VSS line? IDK. I have heard that I would have to change the tone ring to get ABS. IDK for sure on that. I have a 91. Would I need to rewire the gauge or will it fit nicely? The Atari gauge can easily be redone. Later cars, not sure since they don't have a manual gauge for it from what I see. You could run your 700R4 or adapt a 4L80E into it.

At the end of the day, we are doing a lot of fabricating and wiring to shoehorn an LS into a C4. Why don't I just buy a C5 that already has it instead of trying to do a boob job on Grandma?

 

I have had the 74219 with Superram intake and headers and a higher stall TC. That said, I wouldn't just change the seals and pay for an expensive TC. I'd get it rebuild for power and put in something like a PI Vigilante. If you don't like the stall, you can send it to them within 2 years for a free re-stall.

 

Oh I thought you loved the grandma and wanted to keep it above all else. Otherwise why would you have it? My suggestions are based on: you love a car so much you can't stand to get rid of it- yeah I would be doing that fabrication, to get it updated so I could modernize it and keep it forever, and drive it everyday with the fuel efficiency of modern sequential EFI etc...

To find a good engine I would generally be looking at crashed Escalades and similar with low mileage. Something the owner probably used synthetic oil in and took care of.

If you don't drive it that often and have even a hint of selling it, I could see wanting to avoid doing all that work. I understand the vette is not a roomy vehicle for mass mods. I suppose you would ideally need to own a 3-phase tig in a shop/with lifts to get the job done right and so forth. Packaging some serious plumbing is just something I think of when I think of modifying the car for going fast, as opposed to messing around with the engine internals, was kind of what I am getting at. And it must be very difficult with this kind of car.

 

Nope. I keep Grandma around because I've invested in her and she needs to pay back. If truth be told, I love the acceleration the car gives me. The C4 met certain criteria at the time best of all. So it is more like a old sugar momma. If I can get more from a better looking girl, I'm there. If my motor gets blown up, I'm not rebuilding. I'm going for a younger grandma that pays for my acceleration fixes.

At least you hope they took care of it. Again, you don't really know whether they did or whether the motor sat in the elements or whatever. That is why I would tear it down professionally and rebuild. I would not want to hassle with installing it and finding out it has a bad cylinder or cracked or something and have to redo it.

I think they have some kits fabricated but probably have to change the harness since the ECM is probably different. For the LT motor, to turn it into a LS system, I think the ECM has to go. I'm not selling it as I can't see getting any ROI so I'm driving it into the ground to get my jollies out of what I have done to it and moving on to something with an LS system.

 

This really moves this thread off topic. OP wanted a new cam, didn't ask for anything else. Somehow swapping to LS becomes debated.

You like your LS motors good for you. But please don't try to encourage a swap to LS instead of just a cam swap. To much easier just to buy a LS vette to begin with. I think aklim has been to nice about this. I have to ask have you ever done a LS conversion yourself? Then take your daydreaming to an LS forum.

Yes, you know who I'm talking about. Enough!

 

I did swap an LS into a Nissan recently. It has been everything I thought it would be and more.

Cam swaps, head swaps, rocker arms, push rods, crankshafts, pistons, etc... these are engine parts, and anyone with 10-15 years of wrenching experience should know by now they need to be installed with precision and cleanliness.

Anyone with a "cam" thread on an internet forum, needs to be told not to swap the cam. Because either they won't be doing it themselves (not good) or they won't be doing it clean enough (you can never be clean enough). An engine swap is harder, but IMO more reliable of an option. It might cost more but the result is miles ahead of a cam swap in an old engine....

furthermore, anytime I see the word "cam" I instantly think, "well, all you really need is a couple more PSI of atmosphere..." which pushes you towards engines that tolerate forced induction well. Again, the LS comes into view: its cheap, and forced induction friendly.

You can spend a lifetime swapping cams/heads/pistons/etc... for peanuts or you can realize that a dial on the center console can give you all the cam/head/intake swaps you want at the slightest turn... you just need an engine in the car that doesn't mind.
I am sorry for what LOOKS like a derailmeant of a thread, but please see that I lump cam swaps in with engine failures, unfortunate but common results I try to help others avoid if possible and give them an alternative, along with any/all info they request for free to make it easier. IMO I "see" cam swap as a frailty in human thinking when doing "upgrades".

 

Then again the ZZ4 cam never had as good a reputation as the LT4 Hot Cam as I believe it was a remarkable improvement to install a Hot Cam in the ZZ4 motor. Someone was marketing it as nearly a 50hp improvement though I can't recall who. Bot even 35hp would make it worth it to increase power by 10%.

Good luck and hope this can help.[/QUOTE]

https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/buildup/cam/

 

Thx for the feedback but your link doesn't work. I'm sure a quick search can find enough info on the Hot Cam upgrade.

 

How can be realistic at all? An LS swap would easily cost thousands, not hundreds but thousands of $$$. And man hours will be hundreds for the LS swap where cam swap shouldn't bust 20 hours. Now you what to add supercharging, turbo with dial boost control? Dreaming, just big dreams and I hope the OP understands that.

 

My post/goal here is merely to provide accurate information and alternatives for aging population of performance enthusiast/vehicles.

I would budget 15k for budget turbo LS swap @ 600rwhp. I thought this was a vette forum? If that sounds like a lot of money to go fast, you are in the wrong hobby? Or lack imagination. I am not picking on you guys, just trying to show you some fancy new tech for basically free. The engines are nearly free now (02-04 LS versions). Once the turbo and plumbing is all setup you can swap a new engine in for each day of the week without exceeding $1000 if you are careful how you spend it.

 

How much for a KNOWN good unit? You keep saying it is virtually free. That is a very scary word for me. I usually can't afford free since it comes with so many strings attached that I would be better off paying for it than free. A junkyard one is pretty much a crap shoot and it could be sitting in the elements for a while. Something like that, would have to be pretty much under $500 since I will be having to pay for someone to go through it properly which again adds up to the total cost of that motor. OTOH, if I have to run it for 6 months and it blows, well.... labor is time and time is money.

You put an LS into the C4 and what functions are you willing to sacrifice? I can buy an ECM and make it work but will it play nice with the other systems remaining? How much time and money is it worth to get it all working? You stuck it into a Nissan. Well, I can do that with a 3rd Gen F-body too. It doesn't have a lot of the other systems the C4 has. Unofficially I asked several builders and assuming a known good engine and adapters and trans and driveshaft, it is going to take some time to track down the wires and make those that can work with the ECM work. They budgeted about $4000 if things don't get too rough.

 

This thread has really gotten off topic. You can swap a cam for a few hundred bucks. I don't know where all this LS stuff started. If you have a first or second gen engine, you can build some pretty nice stuff for the price of converting everything to LS. And I mean everything. It's not just the engine. It's all the brackets, accessories, pulleys, throttle cable, exhaust, motor mounts, making a air intake work, and the major electrical work involved. You swap a cam or engine in the car, and you aren't having to reinvent the wheel. Yeah you can do a swap, but I think it gets over simplified. I think for a C4, just build or work with what it came with. Bang for the buck, I think you are way ahead.
I also have a C6, and have built alot of LS engines. And they run good, and you can do alot with them. But to swap a LS, I personally think for the extra money and work and problems you will run into, I think you are far ahead to maximize what you have. Alot less problems and head aches.
If your building a max effort engine, then the LS advantage really isn't there. There are first gen SBC heads that flow over 450cfm, if it's max effort. And first gen engines have been around for ever. And with all the aftermarket cranks, blocks, heads, ect, you can build some crazy stuff.I would stick with what you have, the parts are cheap and plentiful.
I really think, If you want a LS, buy a C5 or C6. That's my personal thoughts on the matter.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. Like I said, trying to give Grandma a silicone boob job

 

To me, the boob job is the cam swap.

An LS is more like a synthetic heart transplant.

These years, 84-96, are unfortunetely the worst EFI Chevrolet engines ever produced. Crossfire in 85 and the LT-1 in 95 are IMO just terrible. The first thing I look at doing is dumping them out, and getting anything newer in there, even if its an inline 6.

The topic I see is "I need help increasing the power of my engine, in a reliable manner"
I don't see "cam swap". After so many ruined engines (new ones, like the LS, ruined by cam swaps spitting cam bearings by others) I realized that not everybody has the cleanliness skill to do that kind of work, especially the mechanics you pay to do it.

So when I see a thread about "cam swap" I immediately think "uh-oh, an engine ruining thread for the unwary" and I try to steer them (whether its toyota nissan chevy mazda etc...) away from the idea of "power in parts" (i.e. cam/head/intake) in general and more towards that dial on the center console (altitude adjustment). In other words, DO the cam swap you set out to do, sure. But Remember this: If the engine spits a bearing in 5k miles from now because some dirty mechanic hands got ahold of something in that engine, well, you might try replacing it with a system that does not rely on changing parts to make power, if you really love the car and want to keep it reliable.

Once you can skip opening the engine, you can avoid machine shops. No more waiting on other people. No more putting thousands into an engine to have it fail from something dumb, not even your fault. No more accidents with assembly or clearances to deal with. Just plug and play a dime a dozen. You can prep a junkyard LS for under $500 with all new gaskets, even refurbished heads with new seals and guides is around $300 from ebay shipped I found (and used). And the stock engines tolerate upwards of 500+ horsepower... Once the power adder is in place, its nearly $1/horsepower, the best bang for the buck I've found anywhere which is why I want everyone to know about it.


I hope you see I am not discouraging the "cam swap" as much as trying to educate a vast number of individuals about alternatives to "power in parts".
I love your cars as much as you do and I want you to drive the farther, faster, thats it.

 

Don't know. Either way it is a lot of resources to throw on an old guy.

I thought Crossfire was in 84 only? Also what makes the 95 stand out since LT1 was 92 to 96?

Some of them are just concerned about getting in in and out under book time so they make money. I'd get a reputable shop to do these things.

Assuming you do all the work and have proper facilities to do it and the motor has no issues, yes. Otherwise, if you don't have a clean facility, you have the will but lack the means and the result might be an issue.

Doesn't hurt to have an alternative way to make something work.

 

You bring up all good points, there is no disagreement from me with anything. I just feel that nobody will ever work as good on your car, as you will. So maybe I am here more saying, "please try to do the work yourself instead of trusting a "shop"". A cam swap is an open surgery event in my eyes: there are innumerable ways to follow proper FSM procedure, but still ruin the engine. Mechanics in most "shops" typically do not respect the minuscule nature of our world, the hundreds of thousands of particulate per square inch in the air for example. Although I have completed many a cam swap in the out door air, I would never recommend that situation to anybody. Its kind of like, you can survive a bacterial infection, say, tuberculosis, and go back to normal life. However, that infection remains forever and is somewhat of a tax on the immune system, the same way many other infections can be post-symptom. I feel that dirt can enter the engine in this critical time and severely alter the timeline of an engine without the owner ever recognizing or realizing how it happened, years later wondering what contributed to the failure of some part, and then repeating the mistake over and over until finally they stop opening engines all together.

Oh and the years thing is just me being unsure about production dates and so forth. I don't quote reality here, just something similar to it ;D

 

If you think dirt from open air exposure could cause problems, then what would happen if abrasive material from a scotchbrite pad and a die grinder used to clean gasket surfaces enters through the lifter valley directly ?