IDK. If you are the sort to buy a $200 engine and stick it in the car, I doubt you'd be willing to spend the money to make more than 400HP. Still, you got what you paid for, assuming it runs. Otherwise, you have a paperweight.

 

The lt1 block design is no better or worse then any other factory sbc. With proper parts selection you can make 600 hp.

 

You mean with $5000 in parts and machine work you can make 600 horsepower using any chevy block, for at least 7,000 miles until an error in machine work may or may not show up and you need another one.

That is whole purpose of my original post in this thread; you don't need to put 5k of machine work and parts into an engine to get 600 horsepower anymore. Buy a $400 junkyard 5.3 and pick up a couple as spares, still costs less than $5000.

 

What is your point? I was answering the comment that a lt1 could not make more then 400 hp without failing and a was referrng to the block or founation. I agree that to make 600 hp na it will take around 5000 in parts with an lt1. I can also assure you that a 5.3 running in na form will not make 600 hp either. If you want 600 hp with a 5.3 you will be switching heads, cam, intake, and pistons to get that done, if you expect it to live for you above mentioned 7000 miles.

 

So what do you do? Cut the wood and make the nails, etc, etc to build your own house since they might screw it up and cost you a couple hundred thousand? In this case, maybe you might consider mining your own metal and make the whole thing from scratch since they might screw up the metal. If you go to a fly by night organization, sure. OTOH, if you go to a reputable place, I would think you will get more than 7000 miles on it. If you are going to worry about machine work error, why not the rest of the system? Are you now sure that the pistons are perfect? How about the block or the heads, springs and other misc stuff? Say i bought it new, am I going to wonder if the engine was made right, assembled right and metals are good?

And what is your time worth? If I have to have a spare engine, I'd better be in a race for a big prize otherwise, having to change engines is time and money. OTOH, if your time is only worth a penny an hour, sure. What is it you suggest? Buy $1500 of engines and have them sit around and replace? You aren't talking about changing the battery in a flashlight. Sorry but I'd rather do it once and do it right and it lasts 100K before I have to change it out again as opposed to the "spare tire" mentality.

 

My comment says "longblock" I was referring to the original longblock components, not the block itself. Any engine from 1965 to today could have the right parts put in it and make 600 horsepower. There is nothing special about an LT1 block and nothing bad about it either.

 

What we do is compare track records
we know LT1 pistons from 1995 don't do 600 horsepower
we know that 5.3 truck engine pistons from 2002-2004 will, and many others
we know LT1 and 5.3 truck engines are both capable of reasonable mileage
we know they are both cheap and easy to acquire
we know optispark is terrible track record
we know most OEM engines that are unopened, well maintained, are reliable for daily driver vehicles.
We know that if we are careful and surgically clean with our internal engine work it has a higher chance of success

stuff like that
still a one sided argument

----------------
Depending where you live, engines may be locally available in large quantity. For example, car-part.com shows near me several places with 5.3L truck engines I can use, almost all of them delivery for free. They are dying to get rid of them. I went to one yard that said they have only THREE. I get there and soon three became five, then ten, I found almost twenty of them, forgotten in large containers, out of the rain, ready for me to compression test and inspect. I chose the one I wanted and they delivered it the next day. I asked him how much and he said "How much do you want to pay?" And accepted my first number.

Next, is preparation. In 2018, V-bands are cheap, so your exhaust parts come flying out of the engine bay, no more tedious exhaust bolts. The core support can have it's spot welds removed in non-collectible chassis so the engine can be removed without having to be hoisted high into the air. This is both a stress and time saver. With the exhaust and core support out of the way, all that is left is basic wiring/lines. These things can happen with minimal tools, as It is, after all, a street/strip car.

there is no "do it right". new engines can have problems. Old engine can have problems. built engines can have problems.
For my mind, the most reliable engine is one which already has 100k mileage and has a track record of going at least 200k, and a track record of handling the abuse I intend to put to the tires. And that is all it needs to do. And I have it's spare brothers with free delivery at a cost I choose- unlimited, locally, apparently.
I Hope you understand that I intend to get 100k from my used engine. I am only suggesting that, if for some reason the nitrous system screws the motor over that one time, I can quickly and easily get that next replacement going within a day. No more waiting. Whether I have a spare at home or not is unimportant in this year. I will eventually prep one as I turn the power up past 500+ but again, hope I never have to use it.

 

THAT is what I see as a bad sign. A store that doesn't even know it's inventory. I have found, over the years that I can't afford something cheap today and expensive tomorrow. As a core, sure. As something into my daily driver I am keeping, pass. I don't have a lift or a shop handy. That means it occupies both stalls and I am not a mechanic on the job either. That means I get to it when I have a block of time to spare. I have done an engine and transmission in the garage and it was miserable. So no. I do it once and I don't want to do it again for a long while.

You also have a free pit crew to install? I don't.

So do I. But if I have to have spares hanging around tying up space and money, it does say I have no confidence in the motor. Now if you are racing for a living where you cannot afford down time, sure.

 

It isn't for everybody. It just happens that if you can enjoy the labor, the payoff is power for lowest cost. From there, you can always buy a car already built, like a new C7 Z06. Or some exotic thing. Personally I would never buy, I really love the 'building' aspect and then driving it afterwards, constantly making changes until I've tried every possible thing.

Next thing is, you don't need to buy an engine from a yard sitting on the ground. I also went to some places where they had the entire vehicle there. I found one amazingly clean Escalade with 88,000 miles. Everything inside looked new and it was hit in the front. I didn't want to pay the "insane" price of $900 for it, but this is the kind of engine you want to pick if you are worried about quality and reliability over quantity.

 

If I had a barn with a life and blocks of time, sure. Unfortunately, much of my time is fragmented. So my 6 hours of work a day is pretty cool till you understand that it is a bit here and a bit in the afternoon and a bit in the night. In between I have to slot other things so it is kinda of a crimper. I'd like that barn with a high roof and a drive on lift. With a little time, I can do that. Tie up the garage indefinitely, probably not. BTDT and the wife got pissed when our cars had to be parked outside. I keep hearing "When are you done?". I keep answering "In a week." and she keeps replying "That was 4 weeks ago.".

I'd rather the rear but if the engine was not cracked, that is a good buy there. I can evaluate the quality better with the rest of the car in it. More points if I can start it up and also do compression tests. If the numbers are safe enough, I can bypass the tear down but I expect to pay more. $200 long blocks and I know I would only be happy with a rebuild. My attitude is that I would far rather pay more today and less tomorrow than to have you nickle and dime me to death later on. I bought a cheap set of TFS heads and my expensive short block got wrecked. That and many more don't make me think cheap is really cheap. If I were selling the car, I'd get that $400 special since I could care less as long as it runs enough to get sold.

 

What's this infatuation with 600hp? A real 500hp is plenty of fun in a street car. Like how much more are you going to smoke the tires? More likely you will wrap the car around a tree or power pole a little bit faster with 600hp than with 500hp. With 500hp you will easily over power the cornering capabilities.

Just thought I should mention what Smokey Yunick (RIP) said over 25 years ago "it costs 5 times as much to build a sbc to 560hp than to build to 500hp". I believe the same can be said of a LS motor too.. 600hp is worthless unless you race competitively. And 500hp is very possible for the GEN II LT1 with on the shelf parts. Well it's very possible for a GEN I sbc with on the shelf parts too.

Replacing the cam is just one step in the performance process. Let it happen! Let the owner learn and make inexpensive mistakes before a major expensive effort. Many owners/enthusiasts are encouraged to build a stroker before they know how to set up a valvetrain correctly.. Just stop dreaming and let it happen.

 

Some like the rapid acceleration as opposed to sliding around a corner. Hard to say which is better.

I'm also finding fewer and fewer tuners that want to screw around with the LT or L98. So for tuning, you might have to settle for a "Guess a Tune" or spend ginormous amounts of time and money to learn it and master that skill.

Will the cam play nice with the ECM? If not, see above paragraph. If so, you probably are close enough to stock it won't make enough "bang for the buck", so to speak. I'd go with a better intake and headers first. Easier to put on.

 

The big guys used to shoot for 800 while we all had 400.

Now the big guys are shooting for 1200 and laugh at below 500.

To be competitive these days on the street/strip scene you need 500+

500 is nothing anymore. I know of 3L engines making 800+ with stock internals.
A local well known tuner told me recently,
It is kind of crazy those stock 3L engines put out that much power, and we still think it is "alot of power" with 5 or 6L in our cars. Times have changed.

 

I think you watch to much Outlaw TV.

 

You can buy a 9 second car from the factory now. Thats all I needed to know, to realize I need to step up my game. I dont own a TV.

 

2018 is set at 650 and 2019 at 750 for the latest Corvette

 

What does that have to do with it? There are fancy European cars with 1000hp. You gonna build a 1000hp Nissan now??? There's little or no practicality to your goals. They're all dreams. You boast 3L engines with 800hp and I believe that's what formula 1 uses but so what? Who can afford one of those let alone drive it to work daily. And why you didn't just turbo your original Nissan motor doesn't make sense of what you are boasting about now - boosting small displacement motors.

Chevy knew this half a century ago when they put Big Blocks in Corvettes. HP/dollar cubic inches win. Cheaper than squeezing more HP out of a small block. But you don't even consider that for some odd reason. It's all turbo LS or nothing! I read don't bother with a cam swap instead swap in a LS w/ turbo. Nothing less! Sorry I just don't see how that could possibly help the OP with what he's asking for. I think you need your own thread on LS turbo swaps. Good luck with that!

 

The stock 3L is a next viable option around $1500/engine as opposed to $500/engine average for the 5.3L LS.

The toyota Inline six is preferable for several reasons:
-the exhaust is only on one side of the engine so manifold config/firing order is easy/tubular
-Spark plugs are very easy to access from top of engine
-piston oil squirters, block girdle, hemispherical combustion chambers, optimal plug placement, factory 8.5:1 compression ratio is all geared towards turbocharging and heavy vehicle applications
-factory head flows dividends


Its math and statistics. Parts cost money, and time to put in. Engines cost money, and time to put in. Pros and cons... parts will "nickle and dime" the power bit by bit into a combo. A cam swap with springs or a set of injectors can cost as much as a complete LS engine, though. SO yes, I want to point this out.

Any 1960's engine even with good parts is not going to ever be "good" for a variety of reason related to the manufacturing ability of the era. Newer engines have better sealing surfaces, for example, less likely to leak oil than previous designs. Better chamber tech and reduced timing, some old engines needed 36* to make 280rwhp and today we see 500 N/A LS engines that use 24* of timing instead with the same displacement. It isn't just displacement alone that counts.

 

What is the practicality of a 240 hp motor? My speed limit is 70. Accelerate too fast and it us a ticket for unnecessary acceleration and display of power. 100 hp is enough in WI if you are going there.

 

$500 junkyard engines boosted to 600hp? That's funny. All that time and hard work to swap in a boosted junkyard motor is only going to come apart as it destroys itself launching down the track. Like Smokey said the racetrack was built on parts from engines trying to make high HP with cheap parts.

Yeah I watched the Supra race day at LVMS. One turbo Supra in ten could run the 1/4 mile w/o backfiring and stalling it's way down the track. Yes I have seen fast turbo Supras (8 and 9sec) and the fast Supras drive to the track instead of riding there on a trailer. But those were few, very few. And no telling how many $$$ were spent on the car.. Most the Supras I saw were an embarrassment.