Stick vs.Automatic
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,078
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Sully C5
You need to run without drivers! 
I wonder which is faster...if both have the same rear-end and the same RWHP & RWTQ? In stock form, the MN6 with the 3.42 has the rear gear advantage, the MN6 tranny also is less parasitic. If you bring the two cars to an equal playing field where the only difference is the transmission. I never understood why the 3.42 rear was not used for the A4 Performance Pkg.
I wonder which is faster...if both have the same rear-end and the same RWHP & RWTQ? In stock form, the MN6 with the 3.42 has the rear gear advantage, the MN6 tranny also is less parasitic. If you bring the two cars to an equal playing field where the only difference is the transmission. I never understood why the 3.42 rear was not used for the A4 Performance Pkg.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,285
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Tx Got traction?
CI 5-6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07-'08
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
A fighter jet pilot doesn't need to be shifting gears, and neither do I. I would love to hand any 6 speed vette there a$$ on a track in the North Alabama area while sipping a drink that I pulled from the CUPHOLDER in my a4 pewter convertible.
Auto's are more fun by far.
Auto's are more fun by far.
Great addition to an open discussion.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,285
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Tx Got traction?
CI 5-6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07-'08
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
the 3.42 does NOT have the gear advantage from the dead stop if you take into account the first gear ratio of the auto (3.15 only) and the stick. The rear end plus the first gear number in an auto is higher numerically (lower geared) than the stick. Check it out, that is what my Helm's manual shows.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Enterprise AL
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
A fighter jet pilot doesn't need to be shifting gears, and neither do I. I would love to hand any 6 speed vette there a$$ on a track in the North Alabama area while sipping a drink that I pulled from the CUPHOLDER in my a4 pewter convertible.
Auto's are more fun by far.
Auto's are more fun by far.
Last edited by TacoMike82; Sep 15, 2006 at 11:52 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 12,952
Likes: 0
From: Greer SC
Cruise-In II Veteran
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
the 3.42 does NOT have the gear advantage from the dead stop if you take into account the first gear ratio of the auto (3.15 only) and the stick. The rear end plus the first gear number in an auto is higher numerically (lower geared) than the stick. Check it out, that is what my Helm's manual shows.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,078
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Stangkiller
Last i checked, this was a discussion about STOCK. If you're stock then you need to put the crack pipe down. Otherwise, I'm sure there's a modded 6 speed that would love to prove you wrong.
Great addition to an open discussion.
Great addition to an open discussion.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,078
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by TacoMike82
A fighter pilot has a ton more stuff to worry about then shifting gears, such as a 3rd dimension, both feet on the rudder pedals, one hand on the cyclic and one hand on the throttle. In an auto you have hands on the steering wheel, one foot working gas and brake, two dimensions, and no control over your transmission, BORING. Sticks are way more engaging and way more fun. So you can kick my a$$ while sipping your drink, but I am still going to have a huge grin on my face listening to my LS1 downshifting.
It even sounds good too.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Originally Posted by Stangkiller
Any decent 6spd driver should be able to make it down the track without missing a gear.
If you evaluate GM test results you will see that .20 sec of the .25 difference comes in the 0-60 mph times. This is because the M6 has a 3:42 rearend NOT because the M6 is a faster tranny. Also this is exactly where the skill of the driver comes into play.
FYI put the 3:42 in the A4 and the .25 difference M6 edge is erased
You can lose 1/4 sec without missing a shift. You can spin the tires off the line, you can shift at too low RPM, you can shift too late and hit the rev limiter. So YES it does come down to the skill of M6 the driver.
So maybe we call it a draw 50/50 because of the variable skill of the drivers involved.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,439
Likes: 3
From: MN
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by Sully C5
Exactly, that's the point. The tranny is the least important aspect of the car...the HP, the TQ, the tires, the brakes, the suspension, the driver are all significantly more important than the tranny.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 27,567
Likes: 99
From: San Diego
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
A fighter jet pilot doesn't need to be shifting gears, and neither do I. I would love to hand any 6 speed vette there a$$ on a track in the North Alabama area while sipping a drink that I pulled from the CUPHOLDER in my a4 pewter convertible.
Auto's are more fun by far.
Auto's are more fun by far.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 12,952
Likes: 0
From: Greer SC
Cruise-In II Veteran
Originally Posted by Stangkiller
I do believe swapping rear gears actually robs measured RWHP, on the dyno.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,594
Likes: 4,619
From: Bonita Springs, Florida
I enjoy and prefer driving any car with a manual transmission. Always did and probably always will. It's a matter of preference for me.
As far differential ratios you must also consider the transmission ratios as well. Stock for stock the auto with 3.15's has the advantage over the 6 spd M6 with 3.42's, but not the Z06 M12 with 3.42's if they both had the LS6 engine.
I don't care about a tenth of a second. It's about the driving experience, rowing through the gears, downshifting and hearing the engine and exhaust. That's what I like, plain and simple and it has nothing to do with which transmission is better.
As far differential ratios you must also consider the transmission ratios as well. Stock for stock the auto with 3.15's has the advantage over the 6 spd M6 with 3.42's, but not the Z06 M12 with 3.42's if they both had the LS6 engine.
I don't care about a tenth of a second. It's about the driving experience, rowing through the gears, downshifting and hearing the engine and exhaust. That's what I like, plain and simple and it has nothing to do with which transmission is better.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,194
Likes: 27
From: Aurora IL
I have an A4, and when I ordered my Corvette new, I had exactly NO ONE's opinion in mind but myself. I've had the pleasure of waving goodbye to numerous cocky M6's. Just remember, in the end, when all the talk is over. The one who's the Big Dog is the one who crosses the finish line first, not the one who barks the loudest at the bar. It's a combination of mods that makes the car, not the trans alone.
So I say, get what you want and be happy.
So I say, get what you want and be happy.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 12,952
Likes: 0
From: Greer SC
Cruise-In II Veteran
Originally Posted by Mike98SilVert
I enjoy and prefer driving any car with a manual transmission. Always did and probably always will. It's a matter of preference for me.
It's about the driving experience, rowing through the gears, downshifting and hearing the engine and exhaust. That's what I like, plain and simple and it has nothing to do with which transmission is better.
It's about the driving experience, rowing through the gears, downshifting and hearing the engine and exhaust. That's what I like, plain and simple and it has nothing to do with which transmission is better.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,194
Likes: 27
From: Aurora IL
Originally Posted by Sully C5
This whole debate actually becomes somewhat silly. As you said, it's a matter of preference. I just wish that those MN6ers, who are so condescending to A4 drivers, would realize that we enjoy our cars and many times we have faster cars and better handling cars than they do. BTW some of us A4 drivers actually shift too.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,459
Likes: 13
From: Phoenix
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'09
Originally Posted by Sully C5
BTW I will be running Road Atlanta this Saturday if anyone wants to see how a slightly modified A4 runs a road course.
runs a road course.
C5R-427 (600 HP / 650 TQ), Be-Cool Radiator
FLP Stage V Tranny, Vigilante 3-Disk TC, Custom Tranny Cooler
Wilwood Brakes, T-1 Bars, QA-1 Adjustable Shocks
CCW Track Wheels,
FLP Stage V Tranny, Vigilante 3-Disk TC, Custom Tranny Cooler
Wilwood Brakes, T-1 Bars, QA-1 Adjustable Shocks
CCW Track Wheels,
