This topic has probably been discussed many times so please forgive me as I can't find a thread with the info I need.

Like so many others I'm looking into a head/cam swap and I'm looking for big HP gains. I have a 98 A4 vette and, in addition to the heads/cam, I'm going to be installing a 3.42 rear with a minimum of a 3200 stall. So my question is...in your opinion what are the best heads available for the LS1? Yes, price does matter but so does HP (I'd like to stay under 2k though if at all possible)!

On the low end there are the Patriot Performance heads which just appear to be reworked LS6 heads. I like the numbers of Patriot Performance heads (11:1 compression ratio, 227cc intake runners, 300cfm at .600 lift, etc.) but am I missing something? I mean there are heads out there with similar specs that can cost almost (and more) twice as much.


I've seen a story of someone mounting the 205cc AFR Mongoose heads and achieve a 50+ hp boost from the heads alone (10.5:1 compression), would I see even more with the Patriot heads or am I missing something?

Would I be crazy to mount a pair of heads that claim to flow 330+ at .600 lift?

What heads are you guys running and what are the results? I'm looking for some big numbers!!

Thanks much for the help!!

 

there are many companies that have good heads.
Right now it seems Trick flow has some of the best but they are pretty $$$
AFR are also a very good head but then again it will cost you $$$
I run the patriot head and they work for me. They might not gain as much as the others (about 15-20 hp less) but are good bang for the buck . I have seen car with the exact same cam spec but different head and this is what i see

all cars have a 228/228 591 lift and 112 lsa and all bolt on mods.
afr heads 460 rwhp
trickflow 470 rwhp
patriot 445 rwhp
stock 243 420 rwhp
hope this will help.

 

AFR's provide the same flow, smaller port, higher velocity. Valve drop is more than the GM castings as well.

 

All I have seen with the AFR head is 205cc LS2 Mongoose, is that the head you guys are refering to?

Another thing that I was wondering about was tuning. Obviously tuning the car after a major modification is a smart thing to do but is it absolutely necessary to do? The reason why I ask is because it isn't cheap to have a car tuned and if I could get the same HP out of the AFR head minus the tune as the Patriot head with the tune I'd go with the better head...if that makes sense.

Gosh it sucks being on a budget!

 

This is like asking what ice cream flavor you like the most.

 

Spend the money once....this hobby/past time is very addictive. Once you start making more power you will continually search for more and end up going back over your more "budget" oriented decisions along the way....ultimately spending alot more than simply saving up a bit longer and buying the best right from jumpstreet.

If you know how many people do it twice (or even more) its staggering...

The most important choice you will make when it comes down to what your engine is going to make when you get her on the polygragh machine (the chassis dyno) is your cylinder heads....they are the foundation of the entire build and will have one of the largest impacts on your end results....

Unless you have a premium set of heads your results will always be mediocre at best....below average at worst.

And dont get caught up in the numbers game....you want a small efficient port that flows alot of air if your building a hot street/strip car. The benefit of that is not only will WOT be a blast, your part throttle is also immensely improved and the SOTP and throttle response gains are awesome.

Do your homework and try to get some unbiased opinions....good luck with that....LOL

If you do have any questions concerning our product dont hesitate to PM or call me directly....

Regards,
Tony

 

Not at all. Taste is subjective. Dyno numbers and track times speak volumes.

 

That's good advice...thanks. Yeah its too spendy an upgrade not to do right from the get go. I do like what I've heard about the AFR heads.

 

Has anyone heard good things about ET Performance heads?

 

ET are very good heads as well. When they first came out, there were issues with the alternator bracket not fitting and some other installation problems. I believe theses issues have since been addressed, but do your homework. They also require roller rockers (as do Trick Flow) so add that to the budget if you currently plan to re-use your stock rockers.

As for the tuning, you have to tune the car no matter what you do. You can't run the risk that you are lean or have too much timing, worst case you could cause major damage. So make sure you can fit that in your budget or wait until you can.

We are fortunate at this point we have so many high quality parts to pick from, this wasn't the case several years ago.

 

Just because some head flow 300cfm at .600 lift is not always a good thing. Most intake manifolds may not flow that well to allow that much air. :LS6 Heads even some PP LS6 heads dont flow that well for that much lift. Fast 90/90 combo MAY with the right tunner.

Plus that also depend on the cam you choose.
High lifting cams may require fly cutting pistons too.

Look for heads that flow well at .200, .300 & .400 Some flow much better then others yet not as good at .600.

It is a full package to get where you want to go. Not just pick Heads from Bin A, Cam from Bin B, and hope they fit with older parts you have.

Talk to a professional like Tony, Tell them where you want to go, what you have and your budget.

Let them recommend some equipment.

 

I have the PP LS6 STAGE II heads. I also have what many on here would call a "baby" cam. I do not have any dyno numbers.I do have lots of track time (IMHO this is what counts). My car traps in the 121+ range. I have let several forum members drive the car and all were impressed with the trottle response/ power of the package.The car idles like stock(600rom) and has enough low end power that I can lock the TC at 32 mph. I am running 11.2 CR(8.7DCR) and this really helps the low end power.I also gained 2/3 mpg with the package.It is not just the heads but a combination of components(cam,gear,TC,CR etc.).Do your homework and chose the entire package wisely and you can build a great running car.

 

I'm a bit worried about the tune as I know of no where near me (St. Paul) that could perform the tune as well as the price of the tune (I suspect $500+ for this. I see that lots of forum members install thier own components (heads, cam, etc.) so I wonder if they then tow thier cars to some place to get the tune or are they able to perform this themselves? Are the handheld tuners sufficient (diablo, hypertech, etc.) What do you guys recommend?

 

Et Heads are Probably the best head u can Buy for the Lsx Motor,Imo,They are up there as one of the best Along with Afr ,Also Pointing out that u gotta know what road u wanna Travel when buying these heads ,A Small Chamber head will result in More power,more compression,But if u are gonna Be adding Boost to the car Later down the road , u will want to avoid the small port ,If u do decide to buy a small cc head 59,62, u wont be able to run as much boost on this motor,if u were to have a 72cc head ,Just throwing this in the mix ,something u may wanna ask yourself when buying your Heads,U may wanna Do A mailorder tune ,& Then Drive the car to a Dynoshop & Let the shop Fine tune it

 

At one point I was considering running a SC but the price of those things are a bit scary....dare I say absurd. I mean most procharger,vortech kits for "lesser" vehicles run in the $2k - $2.5k range but with the C5 vette....holy crap! Even used units (usually $3.5k) don't offer much relief (and this usually doesn't include injectors, tuner, etc.) and kits w/o the head unit can fetch around $2k (and this is for nothing but a bunch of nuts, bolts, and tubing)...when all is said and done it doesn't make a lot of sense to go used. :-( I don't know if the price of those puppies is to cover the r&d costs (I find that hard to believe as the parts are parts and the only work would be in the programming) or do they all figure vette owners have deep pockets? Anyway, I don't think this will be in my future so I'd like to go with as high a compression ratio as possible (whatever pump gas will support anyway) and that's where the AFR heads have me a bit disappointed...I think the best I can do with those is 10.5:1...I'd like 11:1 or better and that seems to be only available with the PP or the mega $$ heads.

 

Your cam is very similar to mine

 

What mods do you have? Heads, cam, intake, headers, rear, stall, etc.?

 

Check my sig.

 

You need to read a bit more and get yourself a little more educated on the project you are looking to embark on. Its fairly common knowledge most heads can be milled for additional compression and a smaller chamber volume, allowing the end user to tailer the compression ratio to exactly what he or she needs based on displacement and dome volume (dish etc.).

Its very typical (in street applications) with the AFR heads to mill them to 62 cc's and run a thinner .040 gasket for higher compression and better (tighter) quench. Whether you order them direct or thru one of our dealers, we can mill them for you at the factory so you take them out of the box and bolt them on. With a cam that's street friendly (a 228 or smaller intake lobe on a 112+ or wider LSA), you wouldn't have to flycut pistons and make great all around power.

Your gonna seriously have to take your time and do alot of reading or choose a professional you trust to help you with the combination....the Internet is a great place but its filled with conflicting opinions and mis-information at times....thats just the way it is.

Or, go with a proven set-up that provides good repeatable results and copy it as much as your budget allows. Our 224/228 cam with milled 205 heads and a quality long tube header of your choice can provide immense satisfaction when the smoke clears. A huge power increase across the board and perfect drivability. As your wallet allows you can add better manifolds and other power adding equipment for even more power (larger MAF, EWP, Underdrive pulley, etc.). I ran that combination for over a year in my C5 (in very optimized trim with all the supporting go fast goodies) and the car produced 475-480 RWHP and ran low 11's at close to 125 MPH in only average air (+1400 feet above sea level). The fact it did that with p-e-r-f-e-c-t street manners and great drivability made it that much more impressive. The car got better fuel economy when I was finished as well clocking over 30 MPG on a straight highway run with 3.90 gears in the rear.

Note that with the package described above the car will run and drive well enough to get it to a tuner some distance away, with the obvious caveat of not going WOT till its tuned. ANY combination you will be considering will need to be tuned by a professional....forget the handheld tuners....factor in more money for the tune and day at the dyno. And selecting the right tuner is another decision you need to make time for and do some research on as well....A good one can make a big difference in the final outcome of the package.

Good luck....do some reading, take your time, and try to enjoy the process....you have a higher likelihood of making better decisions if you do.

And as others have touched on there are alot more choices (cylinder head related) than years ago, although IMO the choices of premium (truly best performing) cylinder heads is still a fairly short list. You get what you pay for and there is usually a reason the more expensive stuff is more expensive. Although I certainly admit if you dont mind leaving 10-15 HP under the table and your working on a budget there is alot of good choices out there. Most however leave you with a larger runner when the smoke clears and you lose the other major benefit of the AFR's which is their efficiency and better part throttle operation you get to appreciate every day.

Well thats a mouthful, and my coffee cup just ran dry so Im off to get my Saturday in gear...

Regards,
Tony

 

Hi vettenuts,

Let me rectify a mistake here, ETP Heads DO NOT require roller rocker...at least not to produce the power I have with my engine (see my sig)...totally reliable and efficient with the OEM Rockers!!!

Christian