it doesn't even know what's coming
TT Base Build
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,329
Likes: 1,107
From: Austin Tx
I asked IG to pray for it when I posted it on my stories. LOL
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,888
Likes: 82
From: 405
I talked to him a little bit about your old setup. Ty in SA is a good buddy of mine and I know Jon built his motor also. So the consensus is for him to build mine as well haha so I’m letting him have at it.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,329
Likes: 1,107
From: Austin Tx
You won't be disappointed. Jon is very meticulous and a big reason why I chose him. His prices are very fair for the quality of work he pumps out.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 190
Likes: 36
From: Evansville IN
Love the build. Pulling the interior out of a car to turn it more race car-ish is one of my favorite things to do haha. It's like everything that you take out is making the car faster in your garage just sitting there.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,329
Likes: 1,107
From: Austin Tx
I don't care much about the whole, "full interior street car blah blah blah". To me, that's just an excuse when you lose. Rather do everything I can to make it as fast as I can and if I still lost, well... I just didn't have enough. I love the whole "racecar" interior stuff. Different strokes for different folks.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 1,075
From: South Florida
I Want to help you prevent this type of failure in the future forevermore.
As a RULE I never tune wide open throttle fuel delivery with alternator output added into the equation because of the type of failure you describe is well known among professional tuners and easily avoided.
Alternators are not reliable source of DC voltage at wide open throttle due to the myriad noise signals being produced and should be shut-down for WOT on typical, reliable street cars, as shown here:
Notice near WOT TPS the target DC voltage is near battery baseline, approx 12.5V, this is the default setting for many Stand-alone ECU for this feature.
This allows all electrical devices during WOT to function reliably and eliminates the chances of alternator failure having any impact on your fuel delivery or other systems.
This is how all reliable setups are/should be tuned to avoid catastrophic engine failure due to wonky alternator behavior and eliminates the alternator as a source of failure and frustration.
If the vehicle does not have the fuel delivery capability at 11.5v or near 12.0v then the fuel pump needs to be upgraded. It should not be 'squeezed' for extra flow by raising voltage as you have discovered this is not a reliable method and will eventually lead to heart break.
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Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 1,075
From: South Florida
Yes it is difficult to accept the truth and responsibility. If any of my friends engines blew up because of an alternator failure it would be MY fault because it is the car-consultants (tuner's) job to explain how to build and inspect a reliable vehicle and explore every possibility of failure, this is no exception, it is a well known feature.
It is a well known feature for stand-alone ECU and factory ECU calibrations across multiple platforms, bear witness to the truth in plain writing
For example, as Stand-alone feature:
https://www.msextra.com/forums/viewt...oltage#p449708
As Factory Default:
https://www.svtperformance.com/threa.../post-10107773
A Well known tuning paradigm effort:
http://alternativeauto.com/Marauder_Tune/
It is a 'secret' of high performance reliability strategy. Truth is often stranger than fiction.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post189074
There are whispers across every forum about such ideas,
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...ml#post7221311
Since the 60's people have been turning off their alternators for a couple HP. But that is not what this is about. I don't care about the load or power, I care about reliability and stability. The computer is depending on a stable voltage for many reasons, for example it calculates injector open and close rates based on voltage and pressure. If we connect an oscilloscope to an alternator under load at 6000rpm the signal output wave form is anything but stable and steady. No matter how good the rectifiers and diodes are there is always noise and the chance of failure at random. Thus, depending on the alternator at WOT is NEVER an option. You can't justify an engine failure due to alternator failure- I don't care what kind of car, that is unacceptable because they tend to fail whenever they feel like. Random chance is NOT supposed to be part of the equation.
To properly tune a 1200rwhp Setup for daily driver reliability you must:
Rule #1. Ensure the fuel pump(s) can supply fuel for max power output with only 12.0~ volts supply
This rule ensures in the face of alternator failure there will still be plenty of fuel to complete the run... Since no human can react quick enough to such a sudden drop in voltage... there is no warning light... no safety protocol available... It is unheard of
I rest my case?
It is a well known feature for stand-alone ECU and factory ECU calibrations across multiple platforms, bear witness to the truth in plain writing
For example, as Stand-alone feature:
When I go TPS >90%, the voltage drops to the pre-programmed WOT-value (in this case 12.6V).
As Factory Default:
A lot of Terminators will see lower than expected voltage at WOT due to the fact Ford reduces the alt's output at WOT to reduce engine load
A Well known tuning paradigm effort:
The Marauder is one of the few Ford vehicles that came from the factory with the ability to shut off the Alternator at WOT, but Ford choose not to take advantage of. By shutting off the alternator at WOT we found this alone to be worth 4-5 RWHP with no adverse affects on the vehicle.
It is a 'secret' of high performance reliability strategy. Truth is often stranger than fiction.
The computer could be killing the field control to make more power above a certain rpm. Ford has had some clibrations like that I think.
There are whispers across every forum about such ideas,
Indeed, its a design feature of the ecu. The ecu tells the alternator how much excitation field to apply to the alternator. At high rpms, the need to maintain battery voltage isnt really needed because WOT is only a few seconds. The ecu dumps the alternator and you lose the CEMF (counter torque caused by electrical loads inside the car's electrical system) developed inside the alternator, thus freeing HP and torque for the drive train. The A/C does the same thing, above ~5000ish rpm the ecu dumps the a/c compressor... Yep!
Since the 60's people have been turning off their alternators for a couple HP. But that is not what this is about. I don't care about the load or power, I care about reliability and stability. The computer is depending on a stable voltage for many reasons, for example it calculates injector open and close rates based on voltage and pressure. If we connect an oscilloscope to an alternator under load at 6000rpm the signal output wave form is anything but stable and steady. No matter how good the rectifiers and diodes are there is always noise and the chance of failure at random. Thus, depending on the alternator at WOT is NEVER an option. You can't justify an engine failure due to alternator failure- I don't care what kind of car, that is unacceptable because they tend to fail whenever they feel like. Random chance is NOT supposed to be part of the equation.
To properly tune a 1200rwhp Setup for daily driver reliability you must:
Rule #1. Ensure the fuel pump(s) can supply fuel for max power output with only 12.0~ volts supply
This rule ensures in the face of alternator failure there will still be plenty of fuel to complete the run... Since no human can react quick enough to such a sudden drop in voltage... there is no warning light... no safety protocol available... It is unheard of
I rest my case?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 174
Likes: 12
From: Amarillo, TX
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,329
Likes: 1,107
From: Austin Tx
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,329
Likes: 1,107
From: Austin Tx