Torque Management System - C6
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,565
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by dennis50nj
Rob thats the only way to no. good luck but if you want just think all 06 c6 have better 60ft times after GM changed out the back rear and all 05 c6 have a slower 60ft because GM put less TM in the 06 because it had a stronger rear.
i'm more worried about the clutch not holding up for spirited driving, it's real hard to get good times when the clutch won't come off the floor.
but yes, hopefully the rear will hold up.
is there some configuration i should have the car in when i run it. i always switch to comp. mode when i get in, sure wish it could be part of the memory settings. there has been some debate about comp. mode vs. all-off. there are some in the tm is alive camp that refuse to run in all-off. should a comparison be made between to two or does only comp. mode count ?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
Originally Posted by Zig
is that why the lingenfelter guys broke the rear on their '05.
i'm more worried about the clutch not holding up for spirited driving, it's real hard to get good times when the clutch won't come off the floor.
but yes, hopefully the rear will hold up.
is there some configuration i should have the car in when i run it. i always switch to comp. mode when i get in, sure wish it could be part of the memory settings. there has been some debate about comp. mode vs. all-off. there are some in the tm is alive camp that refuse to run in all-off. should a comparison be made between to two or does only comp. mode count ?
i'm more worried about the clutch not holding up for spirited driving, it's real hard to get good times when the clutch won't come off the floor.
but yes, hopefully the rear will hold up.
is there some configuration i should have the car in when i run it. i always switch to comp. mode when i get in, sure wish it could be part of the memory settings. there has been some debate about comp. mode vs. all-off. there are some in the tm is alive camp that refuse to run in all-off. should a comparison be made between to two or does only comp. mode count ?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,253
Likes: 133
From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by dennis50nj
but if you want just think all 06 c6 have better 60ft times after GM changed out the back rear and all 05 c6 have a slower 60ft because GM put less TM in the 06 because it had a stronger rear.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by dennis50nj
Hey Gary how did the rims work out did you try them on the car yet
I may just run the runflats this year. I really don't think it is going to spin unless it is pretty cold out. If I change the rear and TC next year I will need the DR's. I may do it sooner, if I do I will start a thread to talk about it. I am going to jack the car up and see how they fit with just the wheels only for now.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by Ranger
And you may benefit from an ongoing dialog with your ECM tuner as you start making passes in your C6. On-board data logging at the track would be best. That data combined with your slips and some hand-held weather station input would be ideal.
Ranger
Ranger
Sorry Ranger but I am no mechanic, but I am trying. 
He is also going to help me install a FAST and a ported TB.
I keep real good wx data on all my runs so that will not be a problem.
By the way we got rained out here in Ohio. I probably will not run until next Wed., at Norwalk again. Saturdays are just too darn busy at the track. Went last Sat and did not have my first race until 4 AM, and I ran my first time trial at 9 AM the morning prior.
I can check at the schedule at dragway 42, they may have a test and tune night yet this week. But it has been pretty wet here.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
Originally Posted by shurite44
Well originally I ordered some nitto's 305/35/18's but I waited for a couple weeks. Then I called and they told me they were on back order nation wide. So I canceled the order.
I may just run the runflats this year. I really don't think it is going to spin unless it is pretty cold out. If I change the rear and TC next year I will need the DR's. I may do it sooner, if I do I will start a thread to talk about it. I am going to jack the car up and see how they fit with just the wheels only for now.
I may just run the runflats this year. I really don't think it is going to spin unless it is pretty cold out. If I change the rear and TC next year I will need the DR's. I may do it sooner, if I do I will start a thread to talk about it. I am going to jack the car up and see how they fit with just the wheels only for now.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 593
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by dennis50nj
Rob thats the only way to no. good luck but if you want just think all 06 c6 have better 60ft times after GM changed out the back rear and all 05 c6 have a slower 60ft because GM put less TM in the 06 because it had a stronger rear.
GM would NOT derate TM while at the same time raise HP/Tq on the Z06 yet it has the SAME values as a 2005 C6
Here is both my 2005 and 2006 Z06 and their TM table for 1st gear, and they have the same values !
People either need to get a live or simply get the ECM tuned correctly and not turn TM OFF but to relax the values GM uses.
A ton of facts have been posted on this from GM's own wording of TM and their own ECM tables for TM yet people are still acting like its some secret function that has existed on Corvettes since 1997 !
What cracks me up is GM uses the same TM values for both the LS2 and LS7 because the drivetrains are about the same
And for those who keep claiming TM is only for auto transmission,
give it up already, the auto has one more control since it has the electronics for ABUSE mode to protect the torque converter that manual does not have but all the other TM functions are used for all models.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by boosted_z06
Where do people get all this nonsense ?
GM would NOT derate TM while at the same time raise HP/Tq on the Z06 yet it has the SAME values as a 2005 C6
Here is both my 2005 and 2006 Z06 and their TM table for 1st gear, and they have the same values !
People either need to get a live or simply get the ECM tuned correctly and not turn TM OFF but to relax the values GM uses.
A ton of facts have been posted on this from GM's own wording of TM and their own ECM tables for TM yet people are still acting like its some secret function that has existed on Corvettes since 1997 !
What cracks me up is GM uses the same TM values for both the LS2 and LS7 because the drivetrains are about the same
And for those who keep claiming TM is only for auto transmission,
give it up already, the auto has one more control since it has the electronics for ABUSE mode to protect the torque converter that manual does not have but all the other TM functions are used for all models.
GM would NOT derate TM while at the same time raise HP/Tq on the Z06 yet it has the SAME values as a 2005 C6
Here is both my 2005 and 2006 Z06 and their TM table for 1st gear, and they have the same values !
People either need to get a live or simply get the ECM tuned correctly and not turn TM OFF but to relax the values GM uses.
A ton of facts have been posted on this from GM's own wording of TM and their own ECM tables for TM yet people are still acting like its some secret function that has existed on Corvettes since 1997 !
What cracks me up is GM uses the same TM values for both the LS2 and LS7 because the drivetrains are about the same
And for those who keep claiming TM is only for auto transmission,
give it up already, the auto has one more control since it has the electronics for ABUSE mode to protect the torque converter that manual does not have but all the other TM functions are used for all models.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by boosted_z06
Where do people get all this nonsense ?
GM would NOT derate TM while at the same time raise HP/Tq on the Z06 yet it has the SAME values as a 2005 C6
Here is both my 2005 and 2006 Z06 and their TM table for 1st gear, and they have the same values !
People either need to get a live or simply get the ECM tuned correctly and not turn TM OFF but to relax the values GM uses.
A ton of facts have been posted on this from GM's own wording of TM and their own ECM tables for TM yet people are still acting like its some secret function that has existed on Corvettes since 1997 !
What cracks me up is GM uses the same TM values for both the LS2 and LS7 because the drivetrains are about the same
And for those who keep claiming TM is only for auto transmission,
give it up already, the auto has one more control since it has the electronics for ABUSE mode to protect the torque converter that manual does not have but all the other TM functions are used for all models.
GM would NOT derate TM while at the same time raise HP/Tq on the Z06 yet it has the SAME values as a 2005 C6
Here is both my 2005 and 2006 Z06 and their TM table for 1st gear, and they have the same values !
People either need to get a live or simply get the ECM tuned correctly and not turn TM OFF but to relax the values GM uses.
A ton of facts have been posted on this from GM's own wording of TM and their own ECM tables for TM yet people are still acting like its some secret function that has existed on Corvettes since 1997 !
What cracks me up is GM uses the same TM values for both the LS2 and LS7 because the drivetrains are about the same
And for those who keep claiming TM is only for auto transmission,
give it up already, the auto has one more control since it has the electronics for ABUSE mode to protect the torque converter that manual does not have but all the other TM functions are used for all models.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
boosted z06 i believe what you think you are saying but they could all LS2 LS7 05 c6 06 c6 use the same tuning charts but be set different from the factory i know that tm exists in Manuel and auto. just harder to tune out of auto the programer could change at factory and make a freak or dog or less tm for magazine tests but the o6 has way better 60 ft than the 05 if nothing was changed why a stronger rear but wont interchange with 05 by the way i have no tm have been 1.746 60 ft on stock tires naturally aspirated. cartek does my work you think they dont know
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 593
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by jschindler
I can help but look at the graphs above and wonder how much torque the two engines are actually capable of generating at those RPMs. Do you know (I don't). Also, what is the basis for those torque values - at the crank, at the rear wheels?
All values GM reports are at the crank.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 593
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by jimman
Curious are these desk top generated by the ECM or the edit software and I don't believe they've cracked the code yet on the 06 which would then truely have the same image. Also curious that there seems to be a variety of Deck top images for this ECM, GM sure went through a lot of trouble to install all these different read files.
Why are you saying that as to the 2006 when I and many others with 2006's including my Z06 have been tuned
What has not been hacked yet is the TCM for the A6 transmission
A C5 has a 512K flash, '05 C6 is 1 Meg flash and '06 has a 2 Meg flash file so yes lots of values in the ECM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by boosted_z06
These would be the ECM's values, the edit software is simply a peek program and reporting the values in the table.
Why are you saying that as to the 2006 when I and many others with 2006's including my Z06 have been tuned
What has not been hacked yet is the TCM for the A6 transmission
A C5 has a 512K flash, '05 C6 is 1 Meg flash and '06 has a 2 Meg flash file so yes lots of values in the ECM.
Why are you saying that as to the 2006 when I and many others with 2006's including my Z06 have been tuned
What has not been hacked yet is the TCM for the A6 transmission
A C5 has a 512K flash, '05 C6 is 1 Meg flash and '06 has a 2 Meg flash file so yes lots of values in the ECM.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
From: Houston Texas
I have a C6 A4 Z51 and ran a 12.6 the first time at the track and no tune. That was with Competive driving mode on. Other times at the track I would smoke the tires half way down the track until they stick from a hard launch.
I think that taking off Active Handeling and Comp Mode helps you break loose the tires but there is still some code I feel that will activate only under certien conditions to pull timing, rather the heat, tire spin, rpm,shifts. I'm sure nobody really understands the values or what can triger the toruqe managment but LS2 Edit and HP Tunners can remove and or relax it.
Before anyone could program the LS2 you could only spay 100 shot or less of nitrous without the ECM freaking out and pulling timing and in some cases shutting down the engine. Now with TM relaxed pepole are spraying over that amount without any problems.
I had my car tuned by MTI in Houston and they are regarded as one of the best tuner shops in the states and after relaxing my TM and tuning the car, the car felt like a new car even with Active Handling on.
I think Jason relaxed the point when TM would engage on Active Handling, WOT and Shifts. Just my guess.......
I think that taking off Active Handeling and Comp Mode helps you break loose the tires but there is still some code I feel that will activate only under certien conditions to pull timing, rather the heat, tire spin, rpm,shifts. I'm sure nobody really understands the values or what can triger the toruqe managment but LS2 Edit and HP Tunners can remove and or relax it.
Before anyone could program the LS2 you could only spay 100 shot or less of nitrous without the ECM freaking out and pulling timing and in some cases shutting down the engine. Now with TM relaxed pepole are spraying over that amount without any problems.
I had my car tuned by MTI in Houston and they are regarded as one of the best tuner shops in the states and after relaxing my TM and tuning the car, the car felt like a new car even with Active Handling on.
I think Jason relaxed the point when TM would engage on Active Handling, WOT and Shifts. Just my guess.......
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by boosted_z06
That was the 1st gear table ( there is one for each 6 gears ) and either car by 3000 RPMs should be able to create at least 280 ft/lbs.
All values GM reports are at the crank.
All values GM reports are at the crank.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by SpinMonster
Pulling 5 degrees timing is falling on its face??? or just slower by 5 HP?
Actually, if you are correct, and all that is being "pulled" is 5hp, then why are we even having this conversation? 5hp is not enough to kill a 60' time. I don't think 5hp is all that anyone thinks is being pulled. Dennis is saying that you can hear the throttle fluttering to a partially closed position on launch. That would pull more than 5hp.
I really think that the whole "debate" over TM revolves around this issue. Some people say their car is falling on it face, some say the throttle is closing (at least partially). While others aren't feeling any such thing. Hell, I'd gladly agree that 5hp might be pulled on my car, because I"m the first to admit that I don't believe I can feel 5 hp.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: Roanoke Virginia
Just received HP Tuner's VCM editor. What would happen if you increased the max torque in each gear to , say 600? I cannot change trans in/out, Front axle or propshaft or rear axle or propshaft.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by jschindler
I'll speak for Jimman here. Like I said in my post above, the "falling on it's face" is what many others are blaming on TM, not us. We are responding.
Actually, if you are correct, and all that is being "pulled" is 5hp, then why are we even having this conversation? 5hp is not enough to kill a 60' time. I don't think 5hp is all that anyone thinks is being pulled. Dennis is saying that you can hear the throttle fluttering to a partially closed position on launch. That would pull more than 5hp.
I really think that the whole "debate" over TM revolves around this issue. Some people say their car is falling on it face, some say the throttle is closing (at least partially). While others aren't feeling any such thing. Hell, I'd gladly agree that 5hp might be pulled on my car, because I"m the first to admit that I don't believe I can feel 5 hp.
Actually, if you are correct, and all that is being "pulled" is 5hp, then why are we even having this conversation? 5hp is not enough to kill a 60' time. I don't think 5hp is all that anyone thinks is being pulled. Dennis is saying that you can hear the throttle fluttering to a partially closed position on launch. That would pull more than 5hp.
I really think that the whole "debate" over TM revolves around this issue. Some people say their car is falling on it face, some say the throttle is closing (at least partially). While others aren't feeling any such thing. Hell, I'd gladly agree that 5hp might be pulled on my car, because I"m the first to admit that I don't believe I can feel 5 hp.