Torque Management System - C6
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
I was just sitting here catching up on the latest TM posts, and got to thinking about something.
TM is kind of like baseball. As long as the "strike zone" is the same for both teams, whats the difference? It is what it is.
And I've also been thinking about it's "alleged" effects on performance. The Corvette and Dodge Viper both have almost identical horsepower. I think we can safely say now that bone stock Z06's are faster than bone stock Vipers (Ranger would know better than I - is this the case?)
So, are the Corvettes really being held back by TM? Is the Viper being held back by TM? BTW, I realize the Viper is a little heavier than the Z06, but I would bet that even with the weight being equal the Z06 would still run with, or even outrun a Viper. And let's not forget the Viper has a big low & midrange torque advantage and bigger tires.
Any thoughts on this?
TM is kind of like baseball. As long as the "strike zone" is the same for both teams, whats the difference? It is what it is.
And I've also been thinking about it's "alleged" effects on performance. The Corvette and Dodge Viper both have almost identical horsepower. I think we can safely say now that bone stock Z06's are faster than bone stock Vipers (Ranger would know better than I - is this the case?)
So, are the Corvettes really being held back by TM? Is the Viper being held back by TM? BTW, I realize the Viper is a little heavier than the Z06, but I would bet that even with the weight being equal the Z06 would still run with, or even outrun a Viper. And let's not forget the Viper has a big low & midrange torque advantage and bigger tires.
Any thoughts on this?
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,565
Likes: 5
From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by jschindler
I was just sitting here catching up on the latest TM posts, and got to thinking about something.
TM is kind of like baseball. As long as the "strike zone" is the same for both teams, whats the difference? It is what it is.
And I've also been thinking about it's "alleged" effects on performance. The Corvette and Dodge Viper both have almost identical horsepower. I think we can safely say now that bone stock Z06's are faster than bone stock Vipers (Ranger would know better than I - is this the case?)
So, are the Corvettes really being held back by TM? Is the Viper being held back by TM? BTW, I realize the Viper is a little heavier than the Z06, but I would bet that even with the weight being equal the Z06 would still run with, or even outrun a Viper. And let's not forget the Viper has a big low & midrange torque advantage and bigger tires.
Any thoughts on this?
TM is kind of like baseball. As long as the "strike zone" is the same for both teams, whats the difference? It is what it is.
And I've also been thinking about it's "alleged" effects on performance. The Corvette and Dodge Viper both have almost identical horsepower. I think we can safely say now that bone stock Z06's are faster than bone stock Vipers (Ranger would know better than I - is this the case?)
So, are the Corvettes really being held back by TM? Is the Viper being held back by TM? BTW, I realize the Viper is a little heavier than the Z06, but I would bet that even with the weight being equal the Z06 would still run with, or even outrun a Viper. And let's not forget the Viper has a big low & midrange torque advantage and bigger tires.
Any thoughts on this?
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by Zig
hey....you had these thoughts too soon, we still haven't figured out TM. you aren't supposed to conclude that the ls series motors really kick butt and that gm, is for some reason, giving the rest of the automotive world a chance, by limiting our cars via tm. that comes later, after we've figured out how to get around tm.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Since we are all huddled up here. I bounced of the rev limiter last night on my shift to 3rd. Had it in S mode shifting itself. A6 so no tuning to the tranny yet.
Probably cost me the race. Ran a 13.07 on a 12.99 dial in. He beat me by .006. Seems like an odd thing to happen.
Probably just as well my son was getting a little fed up with the heat anyway.
Probably cost me the race. Ran a 13.07 on a 12.99 dial in. He beat me by .006. Seems like an odd thing to happen.
Probably just as well my son was getting a little fed up with the heat anyway.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 1
From: DFW
I have a friend who had a hard time breaking the tires loose on the street when shifting 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. He believes it has a lot to do w/ TM. We both have MN6. Now that I have some miles on my car I have been trying this in my 07 coupe. So far I have broken the tires loose in 2nd a few times and I broke them loose in 3rd last night.
Can this TM stuff vary from car to car? My car is waking up more and more it seems from day to day. Currently almost at 1000 miles.
Can this TM stuff vary from car to car? My car is waking up more and more it seems from day to day. Currently almost at 1000 miles.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by LS6dude
I have a friend who had a hard time breaking the tires loose on the street when shifting 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. He believes it has a lot to do w/ TM. We both have MN6. Now that I have some miles on my car I have been trying this in my 07 coupe. So far I have broken the tires loose in 2nd a few times and I broke them loose in 3rd last night.
Can this TM stuff vary from car to car? My car is waking up more and more it seems from day to day. Currently almost at 1000 miles.
Can this TM stuff vary from car to car? My car is waking up more and more it seems from day to day. Currently almost at 1000 miles.
Assuming a stock tune, what varies car-to-car is really driver-to-driver technique differences in shift rpm, duration of clutch-in, throttle position during clutch-in, etc.
There is also some influence by tire pressure and temperature, and surface temp.
Ranger
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Well if it is possible, when and if it becomes available to edit out I plan to leave in at least 25% of the TM to help protect my drive line. I just don't want it bogging on the launch the way it does. I would be happy with a 1.9 60 foot.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 1
From: DFW
Originally Posted by shurite44
Well if it is possible, when and if it becomes available to edit out I plan to leave in at least 25% of the TM to help protect my drive line. I just don't want it bogging on the launch the way it does. I would be happy with a 1.9 60 foot.
it bogs down at any rpm? I haven't launched my C6 yet
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by LS6dude
I have a friend who had a hard time breaking the tires loose on the street when shifting 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. He believes it has a lot to do w/ TM. We both have MN6. Now that I have some miles on my car I have been trying this in my 07 coupe. So far I have broken the tires loose in 2nd a few times and I broke them loose in 3rd last night.
Can this TM stuff vary from car to car? My car is waking up more and more it seems from day to day. Currently almost at 1000 miles.
Can this TM stuff vary from car to car? My car is waking up more and more it seems from day to day. Currently almost at 1000 miles.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by LS6dude
it bogs down at any rpm? I haven't launched my C6 yet
After my mods I gained 50 HP and everything got faster except the 60.
And yes it will hesitate no matter how I launch.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by LS6dude
and I assume you are on DR's too? Man that has to **** ya off huh!?
It really does not bug me to much, hell I won first place 2 weeks ago.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
On a M6/M12 tranny, the driver needs to evaluate more than the 60' when looking for TM impact, because it's there exacting a power and time penalty on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts also.
I see the overall impact in the 60' and 330' times and thus the 60'-330' incremental time.
Ranger
I see the overall impact in the 60' and 330' times and thus the 60'-330' incremental time.
Ranger
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,252
Likes: 133
From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by shurite44
Since we are all huddled up here. I bounced of the rev limiter last night on my shift to 3rd. Had it in S mode shifting itself. A6 so no tuning to the tranny yet.
I did the very same thing once when using the paddles (2 to 3 shift I think) but I didn't think the computer would ever even allow the car/trans to hit the limiter in 'auto' mode. 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by LS1LT1
Wow, I'm surprised that was even possible. I did the very same thing once when using the paddles (2 to 3 shift I think) but I didn't think the computer would ever even allow the car/trans to hit the limiter in 'auto' mode.
I did the very same thing once when using the paddles (2 to 3 shift I think) but I didn't think the computer would ever even allow the car/trans to hit the limiter in 'auto' mode. 