C6 1/4 Mile Performance Challenge
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 4
From: Cheektowaga NY
St. Jude Donor '08
Sorry to step in and answer for Tony 
but not necessarily with an automatic, 400rwhp with only bolt ons is difficult enough to achieve with a manual car but in an automatic it's even harder. His numbers might seem a little bit low (maybe 15-20rwhp) but keep in mind that it is an A6 which has no true 1:1 gear ratio on any of it's 6 speeds, 3rd is too low and 4th is too high so that can skew the numbers a bit.
Also, dyno numbers can be manipulated, a good tuner tunes the car for best street and/or track performance NOT for a high dyno number (and yes the two can be mutually exclusive). In other words, a 356rwhp bolt on C6 can possibly beat a 375rwhp bolt on car because the higher hp car might have screwy A/F ratios and crazy timing pumped into it.
Dennis50nj's car is a prime example of this, 376rwhp and it's running with others making over 430rwhp in some cases.
High dyno numbers are not always better dyno numbers, good (correct) tuning is critical.
but not necessarily with an automatic, 400rwhp with only bolt ons is difficult enough to achieve with a manual car but in an automatic it's even harder. His numbers might seem a little bit low (maybe 15-20rwhp) but keep in mind that it is an A6 which has no true 1:1 gear ratio on any of it's 6 speeds, 3rd is too low and 4th is too high so that can skew the numbers a bit.Also, dyno numbers can be manipulated, a good tuner tunes the car for best street and/or track performance NOT for a high dyno number (and yes the two can be mutually exclusive). In other words, a 356rwhp bolt on C6 can possibly beat a 375rwhp bolt on car because the higher hp car might have screwy A/F ratios and crazy timing pumped into it.
Dennis50nj's car is a prime example of this, 376rwhp and it's running with others making over 430rwhp in some cases.
High dyno numbers are not always better dyno numbers, good (correct) tuning is critical.
Also, if you go to www.fastcoolcars.com and click on the horsepower cal and type in the times/weight, it will show you what you have at the rears and at the motor, since i don`t have a true 1 to 1, when i type my times in, i am at 374rwhp Now i would say to all that if you use this cal, put the times in that are on average conditions. When i did my 12.522@115.26mph it was mid 70`s with the barometer at 30.18 and a DA of 1492ft.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Tommy - I'm not going to tell you how to run you chart - I know it's a lot of work. But I think a new listing for the LS3 might be in order.
Of course, in my case, I just moved down a notch - but I'm okay with that because my LS3 will be going to the track in a few months to try to regain some of my prior standings. Shame on me if I can't do it
Of course, in my case, I just moved down a notch - but I'm okay with that because my LS3 will be going to the track in a few months to try to regain some of my prior standings. Shame on me if I can't do it
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,978
Likes: 1,854
From: North/Central NJ - a.k.a. Gotti in the CFNE section
St. Jude Donor '05
wow 6th all time - 1st try and humid mid august texas heat. Not shabby at all.. i think a new ls3 table might be needed as well.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
and if the ls3 has that much more stock dynoed rwhp than the ls2 it should be on its own list the same as the z06. its just not the same motor 6.0 vs 6.2
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
True, new block/heads/intake/air cleaner assembly along with a new manual trans and availability of better performing gears in the automatics...I think that all might justify a new LS3 list as well maybe?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
From: Libertyville IL
You can add me - 12.26 @ 117.05 First run ever!
2006 C6 A6 vert. CAI, H&C, headers, GHL. This is pre-tune - getting tuned for my new cam on Tuesday and may go back on Friday night. Hope to get into the 11's.
2006 C6 A6 vert. CAI, H&C, headers, GHL. This is pre-tune - getting tuned for my new cam on Tuesday and may go back on Friday night. Hope to get into the 11's.
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Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,375
Likes: 406
From: Florida
Wow, why are some of you getting your panties in a bunch. Z06 gets it's own list because it is substantially faster than the regular C6. Same with the modded cars (or should be). The LS3 is not. Times in so far from mags, who have systematic testing procedures, indicate a .1-.2 sec ET difference and approx 2mph trap speed...both well within tolerance between all C6s and drivers, and the results on this list.
Oh, I get it; the 05-07 C6 guys at the top are worried they'd lose their spot. Well, you'll just have to go faster
Oh, I get it; the 05-07 C6 guys at the top are worried they'd lose their spot. Well, you'll just have to go faster
Last edited by TTRotary; Aug 12, 2007 at 04:56 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
Wow, why are some of you getting your panties in a bunch. Z06 gets it's own list because it is substantially faster than the regular C6. Same with the modded cars (or should be). The LS3 is not. Times in so far from mags, who have systematic testing procedures, indicate a .1-.2 sec ET difference and approx 2mph trap speed...both well within tolerance between all C6s and drivers, and the results on this list.
but for all the stock ls2 cars its not fair. even if they run the same its half way to a zo6. you could just add ls3 to the list, but most people who no nothing about the difference, wouldn't know the difference. so for all the guys he made it were they are on the list. their place should be sacred and if they get knocked down lower on the list it should be by a ls2
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
i will answer that! because on the c5s the different years produced 5 to 10 hp. no big diference. on the c6 the ls3 is producing according to the dynos, 40-50 hp more that's huge. its a bigger motor, new trans, better gearing, its like a c7 in a c6 body. i personally don't care! it doesn't effect me yet. but for all the stock ls2 cars its not fair. even if they run the same its half way to a zo6. you could just add ls3 to the list, but most people who no nothing about the difference, wouldn't know the difference. so for all the guys he made it were they are on the list. their place should be sacred and if they get knocked down lower on the list it should be by a ls2
but for all the stock ls2 cars its not fair. even if they run the same its half way to a zo6. you could just add ls3 to the list, but most people who no nothing about the difference, wouldn't know the difference. so for all the guys he made it were they are on the list. their place should be sacred and if they get knocked down lower on the list it should be by a ls2 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
From: Libertyville IL
OK, my best was:
R/T .130
60' 1.889
330 5.301
1/8 8.024
MPH 91.57
1000 10.326
1/4 12.266@117.20
2nd best was my last one
R/T .254
60' 1.957
330 5.341
1/8 8.071 @ 91.18
1000 10.381
1/4 12.332 @ 115.99
Top speed was slower as the day got hotter. Cant wait to see what happens after the tuner dials in this new cam and calibrates my shift points to my 3:15 rear.
Oh yeah, not much spin. Was in competition mode, with standard tire pressure.
R/T .130
60' 1.889
330 5.301
1/8 8.024
MPH 91.57
1000 10.326
1/4 12.266@117.20
2nd best was my last one
R/T .254
60' 1.957
330 5.341
1/8 8.071 @ 91.18
1000 10.381
1/4 12.332 @ 115.99
Top speed was slower as the day got hotter. Cant wait to see what happens after the tuner dials in this new cam and calibrates my shift points to my 3:15 rear.
Oh yeah, not much spin. Was in competition mode, with standard tire pressure.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
OK, my best was:
R/T .130
60' 1.889
330 5.301
1/8 8.024
MPH 91.57
1000 10.326
1/4 12.266@117.20
2nd best was my last one
R/T .254
60' 1.957
330 5.341
1/8 8.071 @ 91.18
1000 10.381
1/4 12.332 @ 115.99
Top speed was slower as the day got hotter. Cant wait to see what happens after the tuner dials in this new cam and calibrates my shift points to my 3:15 rear.
Oh yeah, not much spin. Was in competition mode, with standard tire pressure.
R/T .130
60' 1.889
330 5.301
1/8 8.024
MPH 91.57
1000 10.326
1/4 12.266@117.20
2nd best was my last one
R/T .254
60' 1.957
330 5.341
1/8 8.071 @ 91.18
1000 10.381
1/4 12.332 @ 115.99
Top speed was slower as the day got hotter. Cant wait to see what happens after the tuner dials in this new cam and calibrates my shift points to my 3:15 rear.
Oh yeah, not much spin. Was in competition mode, with standard tire pressure.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
Well then let's determine what exactly constitutes a lot faster.
Yes right now the stock LS3 has proven to be only a little quicker (though on the dyno it's A LOT more potent) in the same conditions than the stock LS2 cars but what happens if someone runs an 11.9 or even an 11.7 (11.7s are NOT going to happen in my opinion) in stock trim, will that suddenly make the LS3 substantially faster than the LS2?
On the other hand I do see your point as well, even among the LS2s there is a pretty wide disparity on the stock list, as much as a half a second or more in some cases so if the LS3 turns out to be within that same range (only faster of course) then maybe it should remain as all bunched up on one set of lists. I mean having a stock, bolt ons, internal mods and power adder lists for TWO different motors in the same car would make for a bit of a mess I guess.
...on the other hand if I A) either end up not losing my spot at the top to an LS3 (not likely LOL) or B) end up getting an LS3 (also not very likely right now) as well and running an awesome time in it then I'd certainly want everything to stay on one list so I can remain number one forever. 
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
In stock trim, no. Though the cars DO have the trap speed/MPH to do it.
Generally speaking, I think that it's more the torque management in the stock tuning and harder compound tires preventing the LS2s from hitting that elusive 11.9 than it is lack of power or too much weight.
Generally speaking, I think that it's more the torque management in the stock tuning and harder compound tires preventing the LS2s from hitting that elusive 11.9 than it is lack of power or too much weight.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,375
Likes: 406
From: Florida
OK I lied, I'm back. First off, I'm no 1/4 miler. Roadracer, yes and for a long time. Again, I'm a racer at heart. Which means I'm all about putting money where mouth is. I see lots of LS3 hype about faster cars. And I see lots of LS2 folks with hail mary numbers frankly worried their podium place will be usurped. My opinion is that the raw talents of the LS3 lie well within the margin of driver ability. So, let's see how it goes. If, 1 year from now, we have LS3s occupying, say, the top 6 spots in the lineup, then we have a car that is truly superior. My bet is, that won't happen, so let's see how fall results go. I know it's tuff on the record holders, but that's that name of the game. As a former HS and college athlete that was #1 in my respective conferences, it was tough to see my records go, but I understood and celebrated progress. Same here. Worst case + GM sells more Vettes 
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
OK I lied, I'm back. First off, I'm no 1/4 miler. Roadracer, yes and for a long time. Again, I'm a racer at heart. Which means I'm all about putting money where mouth is. I see lots of LS3 hype about faster cars. And I see lots of LS2 folks with hail mary numbers frankly worried their podium place will be usurped. My opinion is that the raw talents of the LS3 lie well within the margin of driver ability. So, let's see how it goes. If, 1 year from now, we have LS3s occupying, say, the top 6 spots in the lineup, then we have a car that is truly superior. My bet is, that won't happen, so let's see how fall results go. I know it's tuff on the record holders, but that's that name of the game. As a former HS and college athlete that was #1 in my respective conferences, it was tough to see my records go, but I understood and celebrated progress. Same here. Worst case + GM sells more Vettes
And when you consider that we have an automatic with the wrong gear that has already turned a 12.4 on a 2.01 60' time in Texas in the middle of August, I think we already have an idea of how strong it's going to be.
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 15,324
Likes: 2,080
From: Guelph, Ontario
If the LS3 does not hold the top six spots, it's only because there are not enough drag racers who have bought one (which is very possible). Anyone who doubts the strength of the LS3 has not spent much seat time in one. I have. Trust me when I tell you that it's every bit as strong as the dyno charts are saying it is.
And when you consider that we have an automatic with the wrong gear that has already turned a 12.4 on a 2.01 60' time in Texas in the middle of August, I think we already have an idea of how strong it's going to be.
And when you consider that we have an automatic with the wrong gear that has already turned a 12.4 on a 2.01 60' time in Texas in the middle of August, I think we already have an idea of how strong it's going to be.
I agree 100%! If he had 2.73s in that 08, plus more break in miles on it, it proably would've run a 12.29 that day. And let's not forget his car is a heavier 3LT model too! I have no doubt in my mind that there will be a lot of LS3s running in the 11s bone stock this fall. No doubt whatsoever. And with just some tweaks to the tuning, they'll be a tenths or two quicker as well.
It also would not surprise me one bit if someone takes a 1LT 08, with the 2.73 A6 combo, and gets it properly tuned and puts on a Vararam (or other similar CAI) and runs 11.5s in the cold fall air.