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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 05:47 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by dennis50nj
how light have you found what brand
My favorite brand is GiroDisc: On my Subaru STI they shaved 12lbs off the front alone (my STI rotor pictured below):


I have been talking to them about making a set of Z-51 rotors which will be based on the Porshe Cayman S design; they said they are ready to do it, but I haven't got a proper quote fom them yet. For you, the ultimate lightweight option would be to go with their base model C5/C6 rotors: 16lbs front, 10lbs rear (). These are race track rotors too; not just a skinny little rotor meant to stop you at the end of the 1/4 mile. Estimated cost for the Z-51 rotors is $700F/$750R. I don't know what the base ones are but imagine it'd be less.

Other alternatives are: Racing Brake (Z-51 only):



On sale now for: $761.48F / $800/R.

Or BAER Eradispeed 2 piece rotors:

For $1,078.00 for the base, $1,328.00 for the Z-51 (package with front/rear). No word on what these weight but they and the GiroDisc are the only non Z-51 (I.E. Smaller diameter and thus lighter) two piece rotors I can find.

As an added bonus these rotors all tend to last longer, are less prone to warpage and the aluminum center hat dissipates heat better, keeping the rotors cooler and preventing fade on the track

How about you; which one did you have in mind? Have you found any I'm not aware of? I'm still doing my research on this because I think $1400 on rotors is a *bit* steep! Maybe we can do a group buy with GiroDisc?
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 06:09 PM
  #22  
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Or change to the stock C6 ./ C5 caliper and mounting bracket.

Front C5 / C6 rotor is 11 lbs rear is 7 lbs


and stay far away from titanium rotors. Titanium does not absorb heat thus will not slow your car down.

A few years ago, we had the inventor or the Red Devil ti rotors on here. He finally mentioned those Ti rotors were for show cars, not slowing your car down

Last edited by AU N EGL; Aug 28, 2008 at 06:12 PM.
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dennis50nj
ok, i see there is no rule of thumb, all the math equations gives me a head ache. so if i put a lighter rotors front and back and use c5 rotors a smaller diameter. closer to the center of inertia 50lbs lighter and put a 10 lb lighter ccw rim on the back for a total of 60lbs rotating, what is your best guess of the et gain in 1/10s
Shouldn't be a gain in et, but rather a loss in et. The lighter the vehicle (sprung, unsprung, rotational), the quicker the vehicle can change speed. What you're looking for is "MOI" ( moment of enertia)

If you want it quicker, remove the front rotors, calipers, lines, heavy stock wheels & tires and go with bicycle wheels and skinnys. Corvettes aren't designed for drag racing.


How many times must this happen?
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 06:14 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by AU N EGL
Or change to the stock C6 ./ C5 caliper and mounting bracket.

Front C5 / C6 rotor is 11 lbs rear is 7 lbs
No. Way. Stock Z51 rotors are 22lb front 20lb rear. Are you telling me that by making the rotors 1 inch larger in diamete WHILE KEEPING THE THICKNESS THE SAME added 11lbs to the front and 13 to the rear? Even if they were cast in lead that wouldn't happen.

Two piece C5 / C6 rotors are 16lbs front / 10lbs rear. This tells me the stock rotors are somewhere around 19lbs front / 15lbs rear or thereabouts.
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
None of the posts so far have been accurate. You can't "define" a ratio of rotating mass vs. mass w/out knowing a few things; first, the distance from the center line that the rotating inertia is, and second, the delta in speed of the part in question.

Lightening a drive shaft for example is wasted money b/c the thing is such a small diameter, it doesn't take much energy to accerate it (radially) no matter how much it weighs! A flywheel, by comparison, is a much, MUCH more effective place to cut weight.

Also, let's look at the DELTA in RPM for the two components, in say the 1/4 mile. From zero to ~110 mph, w/a 3.42 gear, your drive shaft will accelerate from zero to about 5000 RPM (Rought trap rpm in 4th gear at 110). So you have ~12 second to accelerate a 2" diameter tube from 0-5000 RPM. How much energy does that consume? Not 6.5 TIMES it's weight, that's for sure!

Now look that the flywheel. It goes from roughly 2500 RPM, to 6500 RPM, then from 4500 to 6500, then from 4500 to 6500, then from 4500 to about 5000 for a total DELTA of 8500 RPM in teh same 12 seconds! Not to mention the diameter is much larger, and so the (rotating) mass has a much larger "lever arm" working against the torque the engine is producing.

Making blanket statements about xx# of rotating = xx#'s of mass....that doesn't work. Money well spent on reducing rotating inertia is in parts w/large diameters, and large RPM ranges.
Excellent post! You hit on the three most important variables to consider when analyzing rotational inertia and HP...diameter, angular velocity (RPM), and time. Obviously mass is a factor but it has a linear effect while diameter and RPM have an exponential effect. And while it's fine to calculate the work/kinetic energy added to spin up a wheel for instance, that tells you nothing without having the time it took to do it to determine the HP required (or saved in this instance) to overcome the inertia.

Obviously you know your physics, but for those that don't, here's a good link to explore:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mi.html#mi
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NORTY
Shouldn't be a gain in et, but rather a loss in et. The lighter the vehicle (sprung, unsprung, rotational), the quicker the vehicle can change speed. What you're looking for is "MOI" ( moment of enertia)

If you want it quicker, remove the front rotors, calipers, lines, heavy stock wheels & tires and go with bicycle wheels and skinnys. Corvettes aren't designed for drag racing.


How many times must this happen?
they are doing a very good job at drag racing, we know everything you are saying already, but the question is how much gain do you get from the lighter rotating mass and of course a gain in the 1/4 is a reduction, like he is gaining on him, a play on words if you don't know the answer just say so, as i don't that's why i asked i think its 3x but want to make sure, and if corvettes weren't for drag racing, why does gm give a 1/4 time and not a road race time at a track with a standard length
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 06:38 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by AU N EGL
Or change to the stock C6 ./ C5 caliper and mounting bracket.

Front C5 / C6 rotor is 11 lbs rear is 7 lbs


and stay far away from titanium rotors. Titanium does not absorb heat thus will not slow your car down.

A few years ago, we had the inventor or the Red Devil ti rotors on here. He finally mentioned those Ti rotors were for show cars, not slowing your car down
Red Devil rotors are not Titanium. They have a thin coating of "Titanium Ceramic". Underneath that coating is a skinny steel rotor; it doesn't have the heat capacity of a heavier rotor so it will overheat on a race track but they would be perfectly suited to stop you at the end of a 1/4 mile.
Titanium does have poor heat conductivity but that does not mean it won't slow your car down; a materials' ability to work as a brake compound has more to do with its heat capacity and coefficient of friction than anything else. The problem with titanium is that it readily oxidizes when a fresh layer is exposed to the air so rotors would be consumed very rapidly.
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 08:23 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by PowerLabs
No. Way. Stock Z51 rotors are 22lb front 20lb rear. Are you telling me that by making the rotors 1 inch larger in diamete WHILE KEEPING THE THICKNESS THE SAME added 11lbs to the front and 13 to the rear? Even if they were cast in lead that wouldn't happen.

Two piece C5 / C6 rotors are 16lbs front / 10lbs rear. This tells me the stock rotors are somewhere around 19lbs front / 15lbs rear or thereabouts.

Not two piece. The single piece C5 / C6 rotors are 11 lbs each fronts.

the diameter is larger and each side is thicker on the Z51 rotors over the stock C5 / C6 rotor

So keep your rotating wt down, use the stock C6 rotor and the stock C6 caliper mounting bracket.
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 09:10 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by patton
this topic was discused in 2007 and dennis was part of it,the math hasnt changed from then or a few days ago
so tell us what it adds up to, i don't remember and i am not a physics major.
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Old Aug 28, 2008 | 11:35 PM
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 12:46 AM
  #31  
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Other alternatives are: Racing Brake (Z-51 only):



On sale now for: $761.48F / $800/R.

Or BAER Eradispeed 2 piece rotors:

For $1,078.00 for the base, $1,328.00 for the Z-51 (package with front/rear). No word on what these weight but they and the GiroDisc are the only non Z-51 (I.E. Smaller diameter and thus lighter) two piece rotors I can find.

As an added bonus these rotors all tend to last longer, are less prone to warpage and the aluminum center hat dissipates heat better, keeping the rotors cooler and preventing fade on the track

How about you; which one did you have in mind? Have you found any I'm not aware of? I'm still doing my research on this because I think $1400 on rotors is a *bit* steep! Maybe we can do a group buy with GiroDisc? [/QUOTE]



I have a set of 4 Baer Eradispeed 2 piece rotors (PICTURED ABOVE) for the C6 that I am no longer using. I want less than 1/2 price $495 +S/H. If intersted send me a PM and contact Chris at Next Level Performance (407)869-7223(RACE)

Last edited by C6 ROLLER; Aug 29, 2008 at 12:49 AM.
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 04:52 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by NORTY
Corvettes aren't designed for drag racing.
They aren't? Where exactly is that law written?
And is that for all Corvettes or just the current ones?
Funny because for the first 9 years of it's life ALL Corvettes had solid rear axles and most had carburated V8s too LOL.

And for your information, technically speaking, NO CAR is designed for drag racing from the factory anymore. So basically any car sold today has to be made to specialize and excel in the particular arena that it's owner wants it to, be it drag racing, road racing, top speed runs or even off road.







Originally Posted by NORTY
How many times must this happen?
As many times as it takes to finally silence those closeminded and rigid thinking types of people that post stupid things such as "Corvettes aren't designed for drag racing".
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 02:53 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by LS1LT1
As many times as it takes to finally silence those closeminded and rigid thinking types of people that post stupid things such as "Corvettes aren't designed for drag racing".
The Corvette SHOULD be...and IS, good (not purpose built, but GOOD) at all aspects of motor sports. Drag racing is one of those aspects.

OP: I don't think that those $1k+ rotors are a good way to spend money. First of all, the over all diameter is small, (reletive to the wheel/tire) and the RPM change over time is low; 0-~1400 RPM in ~12 seconds. Furthermore, the weight savings in the two piece rotor is in the center: the hat. NOT in the swept area. (If it was, you'd lose heat absorbing capacity and reduce braking performance). So you're looking at saving a couple pounds, the diameter of your hub and smaller, that you need to accelerate 1400 RPM in 12 sec.

The $1k+ money will buy you more gains elsewhere in the car, at the point that you're at.

Last edited by Tom400CFI; Aug 29, 2008 at 02:57 PM.
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 03:18 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
The Corvette SHOULD be...and IS, good (not purpose built, but GOOD) at all aspects of motor sports. Drag racing is one of those aspects.

OP: I don't think that those $1k+ rotors are a good way to spend money. First of all, the over all diameter is small, (reletive to the wheel/tire) and the RPM change over time is low; 0-~1400 RPM in ~12 seconds. Furthermore, the weight savings in the two piece rotor is in the center: the hat. NOT in the swept area. (If it was, you'd lose heat absorbing capacity and reduce braking performance). So you're looking at saving a couple pounds, the diameter of your hub and smaller, that you need to accelerate 1400 RPM in 12 sec.

The $1k+ money will buy you more gains elsewhere in the car, at the point that you're at.
Good point, however one of the biggest advantages of reducing weight on the rim/hub/rotor/tire assembly is that the suspension has less mass to dampen and so it can respond faster to bumps and changing road conditions. This hadn't been mentioned yet.
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
The Corvette SHOULD be...and IS, good (not purpose built, but GOOD) at all aspects of motor sports. Drag racing is one of those aspects.

OP: I don't think that those $1k+ rotors are a good way to spend money. First of all, the over all diameter is small, (reletive to the wheel/tire) and the RPM change over time is low; 0-~1400 RPM in ~12 seconds. Furthermore, the weight savings in the two piece rotor is in the center: the hat. NOT in the swept area. (If it was, you'd lose heat absorbing capacity and reduce braking performance). So you're looking at saving a couple pounds, the diameter of your hub and smaller, that you need to accelerate 1400 RPM in 12 sec.

The $1k+ money will buy you more gains elsewhere in the car, at the point that you're at.
thanks Tom, i agree i dont think thats enough savings, but i do like these ones, i dont like the price
http://www.reddevilbrakes.com/page/page/1001014.htm
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 04:41 PM
  #36  
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I recently did a Z06 swap on mine. Those anchors come in about 30lbs each! Might go two piece at first pad change but I dont want to sacrafice heat absorbtion for weight savings( not to mention cost of quality 2 piece). Decisions,Decisions.
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dennis50nj
thanks Tom, i agree i dont think thats enough savings, but i do like these ones, i dont like the price
http://www.reddevilbrakes.com/page/page/1001014.htm
Good lord! $2600 for 4 rotors??? That's a set of heads! Too rich for my blood, that's for sure!
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 05:04 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
Good lord! $2600 for 4 rotors??? That's a set of heads! Too rich for my blood, that's for sure!
that's what i thought. im thinking about the c5 ones less money and the said they will stop better then the factory z51 ones, the bad news is those prices listed are a piece, each, not a pair
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dennis50nj
the bad news is those prices listed are a piece, each, not a pair
Oh

my

gad.

Tom400CFI will never own those.
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Old Aug 29, 2008 | 10:38 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by dennis50nj
ok, i see there is no rule of thumb, all the math equations gives me a head ache. so if i put a lighter rotors front and back and use c5 rotors a smaller diameter. closer to the center of inertia 50lbs lighter and put a 10 lb lighter ccw rim on the back for a total of 60lbs rotating, what is your best guess of the et gain in 1/10s
Dennis, I run c-5 drilled and slotted rotors saves a pound or so each wheel. Then I got rid of the heavy runflats. I changed to PS'2. So each front Ps'2 saved 5 lbs each rear 7 pounds.
The tire is the because it's the biggest rotating weight on the car. About 30 pounds total.The weight reduction is big in two ways, one the shock has less to control, so handling and straight line performance.
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