Vitesse Throttle Controller - Wow!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,954
Likes: 261
From: Greensboro NC
2015 C6 of the Year Finalist
It makes a huge difference.
Here's a write up I did years ago wherein I tried to explain it. It's easy to feel but somewhat hard to explain to someone who hasn't felt it.
One thing is for sure, everyone on this thread raving about how much of a difference it makes are not making it up, you'd never get that many people to create false recommendations...this isn't Yelp you know....
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-buck-mod.html
Here's a write up I did years ago wherein I tried to explain it. It's easy to feel but somewhat hard to explain to someone who hasn't felt it.
One thing is for sure, everyone on this thread raving about how much of a difference it makes are not making it up, you'd never get that many people to create false recommendations...this isn't Yelp you know....
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-buck-mod.html
Who here has personally done this with a manual transmission?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 877
Likes: 102
From: TX Hill Country
Joe, wouldn't three modes change things regardless of whether a COW booster or the Vitesse was installed?
I'll be the first to admit that I don't exactly know how the mode button really works. I know by selecting the different modes, the car does drive differently, but it does that in stock configuration.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't exactly know how the mode button really works. I know by selecting the different modes, the car does drive differently, but it does that in stock configuration.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Joe, wouldn't three modes change things regardless of whether a COW booster or the Vitesse was installed?
I'll be the first to admit that I don't exactly know how the mode button really works. I know by selecting the different modes, the car does drive differently, but it does that in stock configuration.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't exactly know how the mode button really works. I know by selecting the different modes, the car does drive differently, but it does that in stock configuration.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,108
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
You can. Chuck can program different throttle sensitivity into the computer, then you as the user choose them by going from regular mode, traction control off, and competitive mode.
Tom you can log throttle blade position and pedal position with HP Tuners and see what the difference is for various pedal positions with the unit. You'll be able to see different curves on your scanner, blade vs. pedal.
I've had a COW booster for years now and it really works as described here for making the car feel a lot more peppy. And it's great for heel and toe throttle blips which is why I got it. I'm sure this device works the same and as noted has a greater range of adjustability. By the way my Prius has three modes based on different button sets as well, and I understand the C7 has different throttle maps based on different active handling settings as well so this way to modify how the car feels is becoming very common.
Subfloor and I are having some good conversations about his new C7Z06...the relationship between the pedal and the throttle blade is absolutely NOT direct and completely different from a c6. You hit the pedal and the computer decides what to do with the blade and it's not anywhere near linear, you should see his scans.
I spoke to Howard at Redline about this the other day, he told me that the new controllers base throttle openings on a polynomial calculation - pedal input is a "suggestion" to the computer, and it gives what it thinks it should give based on available traction, torque limits, etc. etc. It's a huge difference between pedal input and throttle blade when you see a scan.
For old guys like me, I said this sounds like a Quadrajet with it's air valves on the secondaries - the secondary throttle blades are mechanical, but the air valves control the air and fuel admitted to the engine, it only draws as much as it needs (based on the spring wrap you set if you know that little secret). It also reminds me how at 12 years old I could ride my buddy's tiller engine mini bike a lot faster than he could...because I knew how to use my finger to bypass the governor on a B&S engine to give WOT. I told Subfloor too bad he couldn't run a string from the throttle blade in his car to the interior like I ended up doing on the minibike. lol
Tom you can log throttle blade position and pedal position with HP Tuners and see what the difference is for various pedal positions with the unit. You'll be able to see different curves on your scanner, blade vs. pedal.
I've had a COW booster for years now and it really works as described here for making the car feel a lot more peppy. And it's great for heel and toe throttle blips which is why I got it. I'm sure this device works the same and as noted has a greater range of adjustability. By the way my Prius has three modes based on different button sets as well, and I understand the C7 has different throttle maps based on different active handling settings as well so this way to modify how the car feels is becoming very common.
Subfloor and I are having some good conversations about his new C7Z06...the relationship between the pedal and the throttle blade is absolutely NOT direct and completely different from a c6. You hit the pedal and the computer decides what to do with the blade and it's not anywhere near linear, you should see his scans.
I spoke to Howard at Redline about this the other day, he told me that the new controllers base throttle openings on a polynomial calculation - pedal input is a "suggestion" to the computer, and it gives what it thinks it should give based on available traction, torque limits, etc. etc. It's a huge difference between pedal input and throttle blade when you see a scan.
For old guys like me, I said this sounds like a Quadrajet with it's air valves on the secondaries - the secondary throttle blades are mechanical, but the air valves control the air and fuel admitted to the engine, it only draws as much as it needs (based on the spring wrap you set if you know that little secret). It also reminds me how at 12 years old I could ride my buddy's tiller engine mini bike a lot faster than he could...because I knew how to use my finger to bypass the governor on a B&S engine to give WOT. I told Subfloor too bad he couldn't run a string from the throttle blade in his car to the interior like I ended up doing on the minibike. lol
The drive by wire OEM settings allow for a greater degree of driver incompetence and therefore abide by gov't mandated safety and fuel economy. Very few Vette owners would have the capability to drive with even the stock power if the throttle was cable controlled. When you start bumping the power, it just gets worse. DBW is a GM CYA for the teen who hops in dad's Z06, so he can get out of the driveway before killing himself.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Lol I can't believe I stepped back into this argument over whether this works. I went round and round years ago with people who didn't have it and said it didn't work. It really does, I truly promise. Manual or automatic. I'm not making any money here just chiming in on a mod I really enjoy and would like to recommend to my fellow Vette brothers and sisters, makes it a different car. Cow booster or vitesse, they both do the same. Vitesse gives 17 settings vs 3. My guess is you'll find one and leave it there. That's what I do despite having three. Chuck can do nearly infinite maps and I had him change my regular setting to be less snappy while he was onsite tuning it. He has over time learned which maps people like.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 877
Likes: 102
From: TX Hill Country
Does COW's programming of his COW Booster actually change the throttle mapping when these different modes are selected and traction control, active handling and competition mode are turned ON/OFF for a C6?
HOXXOH, a very accurate statement about the GM CYA aspect of DBW. I only have a custum tune by Lew, no power adders like lot of you guys, and this car at full throttle is something that you have to be on top or you can get in trouble real quick. I played with all of the SP settings for this Vitesse and SP8 and SP9 make me feel uncomfortable. And, this is with nanny's ON. I recognize that my reflexes, mentally as well as physically, aren't as quick as they used to be. I like spirited driving, just with some reserve so that I don't wreck and hurt my car or myself, and especially someone else.
HOXXOH, a very accurate statement about the GM CYA aspect of DBW. I only have a custum tune by Lew, no power adders like lot of you guys, and this car at full throttle is something that you have to be on top or you can get in trouble real quick. I played with all of the SP settings for this Vitesse and SP8 and SP9 make me feel uncomfortable. And, this is with nanny's ON. I recognize that my reflexes, mentally as well as physically, aren't as quick as they used to be. I like spirited driving, just with some reserve so that I don't wreck and hurt my car or myself, and especially someone else.
Last edited by PDsVettes; Sep 7, 2015 at 01:17 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 968
Likes: 8
The Vitesse is very simple to use, and has a great number of 'settings/ranges. If you do not like the settings Chuck puts into the CB, you can send it back to him and he'll re-do it.
Vitesse has advised that, via the PCM, the throttle change maxes out at 30%, i believe, while the Vitesse has a much larger capacity/greater change.
You'd have to send in your PCM to Chuck and have him adjust it. If you don't have an extra PCM, you'd be without your Vette for the down time.
Last edited by J Christensen; Sep 7, 2015 at 01:19 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
AFAIK at this time, this Vitesse unit allows the driver to be the computer that makes the "suggestion", based upon the driver's knowledge of available power and traction.
The drive by wire OEM settings allow for a greater degree of driver incompetence and therefore abide by gov't mandated safety and fuel economy. Very few Vette owners would have the capability to drive with even the stock power if the throttle was cable controlled. When you start bumping the power, it just gets worse. DBW is a GM CYA for the teen who hops in dad's Z06, so he can get out of the driveway before killing himself.
The drive by wire OEM settings allow for a greater degree of driver incompetence and therefore abide by gov't mandated safety and fuel economy. Very few Vette owners would have the capability to drive with even the stock power if the throttle was cable controlled. When you start bumping the power, it just gets worse. DBW is a GM CYA for the teen who hops in dad's Z06, so he can get out of the driveway before killing himself.
Yes. The factory throttle maps on the c6 are the same in the three modes, but Chuck changes them independently. Other cars have different throttle maps based on different modes (like the c7, my Prius, etc.).
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,108
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Tom the Vitesse not would change what Subfloor is seeing which is different from what we're talking about there. First, I doubt it works with the c7. Second, Subfloor is flooring his car and the throttle blade takes nearly half a second to open fully, and the graph it takes is bumpy - it's clear the computer is doing torque and traction management despite him being in race mode, traction control off, etc. It should keep warranty claims on the A8 down. The Cow booster and Vitesse only affect part throttle, not WOT.
While true that the CB doesn't affect WOT, the Vitesse apparently can in the eco mode. If I understand it correctly, which is why I'd like to see scans, the eco mode has 7 different timing phases between the acceleration and deceleration ramps, that relate to pedal position including 100%. In that respect, that's similar to the time shown on Subfloor's scans of the C7, but without the bumpy line between the ramps. That's also the reason I have an interest in this device, since I'd have the ability to create a smooth transition to WOT over a longer time period by electronics rather than by my shaky foot. It'd make the rolling into the throttle procedure, much more uniform and repeatable on less than excellent prepped tracks.
I experimented with pneumatics last year and was about to try hydraulics this year before spending a bunch for the electronics programming. If this works like I want, it'll save me time and money.
BTW, time and spaces are running out for the 4th MIR No DA#% Excuses event, if you want in.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 34
Testament from a former user having experienced with the one he is selling and the $180 Vitesse unit, which is what this thread is all about - which, although experience attempted Thread lock, prior to Vitesse becoming a forum Vendor - possibly, fear of superior competition:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uding-pcm.html
Thank you all for postings on the Vitesse Throttle Controller! A simple - buy it - plug in - multiple settings - no hassle device!!
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uding-pcm.html
Thank you all for postings on the Vitesse Throttle Controller! A simple - buy it - plug in - multiple settings - no hassle device!!
Last edited by victorf; Sep 7, 2015 at 03:14 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
I mentioned the "suggestion" as only a comparison to the Vitesse in the C6 where the driver can push buttons to make choices for the "suggestion". Back in the direct connection days, your footwork was making the "suggestion".
While true that the CB doesn't affect WOT, the Vitesse apparently can in the eco mode. If I understand it correctly, which is why I'd like to see scans, the eco mode has 7 different timing phases between the acceleration and deceleration ramps, that relate to pedal position including 100%. In that respect, that's similar to the time shown on Subfloor's scans of the C7, but without the bumpy line between the ramps. That's also the reason I have an interest in this device, since I'd have the ability to create a smooth transition to WOT over a longer time period by electronics rather than by my shaky foot. It'd make the rolling into the throttle procedure, much more uniform and repeatable on less than excellent prepped tracks.
I experimented with pneumatics last year and was about to try hydraulics this year before spending a bunch for the electronics programming. If this works like I want, it'll save me time and money.
BTW, time and spaces are running out for the 4th MIR No DA#% Excuses event, if you want in.
While true that the CB doesn't affect WOT, the Vitesse apparently can in the eco mode. If I understand it correctly, which is why I'd like to see scans, the eco mode has 7 different timing phases between the acceleration and deceleration ramps, that relate to pedal position including 100%. In that respect, that's similar to the time shown on Subfloor's scans of the C7, but without the bumpy line between the ramps. That's also the reason I have an interest in this device, since I'd have the ability to create a smooth transition to WOT over a longer time period by electronics rather than by my shaky foot. It'd make the rolling into the throttle procedure, much more uniform and repeatable on less than excellent prepped tracks.
I experimented with pneumatics last year and was about to try hydraulics this year before spending a bunch for the electronics programming. If this works like I want, it'll save me time and money.
BTW, time and spaces are running out for the 4th MIR No DA#% Excuses event, if you want in.
But for a drag strip, I'll still much prefer my foot to control power application to maintain traction...I've never seen a launch control or traction control yet that can do better than I can. I'd love to see you try this in the name of science, but I'm going to put my stake in the ground that your foot, shaky or not, will still work much better with a more direct connection to the throttle than by having it muffled by an electronic nanny.
I applaud your willingness to try this for the sake of science, but I'll put my stake in the ground that your foot, shaky or not, will do better with a more direct connection to the throttle than having your input muffled by an electronic device.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 877
Likes: 102
From: TX Hill Country
Many aftermarket products that possibly interfere with vehicle emissions have the "off road" or similar disclosure statement. It's a CYA thing for the manufacturer.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 602
From: Sacramento CA
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Of course I'm not a lawyer and I know they will look for any reason to blame someone other than the person actually at fault (the driver who hired them).
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,080
Likes: 565
From: Allen TX
But for a drag strip, I'll still much prefer my foot to control power application to maintain traction...I've never seen a launch control or traction control yet that can do better than I can. I'd love to see you try this in the name of science, but I'm going to put my stake in the ground that your foot, shaky or not, will still work much better with a more direct connection to the throttle than by having it muffled by an electronic nanny.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,108
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Your comment about a shaky right foot is very valid, I learned from my foray into hypermiling that small foot movements, causing the accelerator pump (or whatever you'd call it in our electronic cars) to activate causes a pretty significant decrease in mileage compared to smooth and steady accelerator operation.
But for a drag strip, I'll still much prefer my foot to control power application to maintain traction...I've never seen a launch control or traction control yet that can do better than I can. I'd love to see you try this in the name of science, but I'm going to put my stake in the ground that your foot, shaky or not, will still work much better with a more direct connection to the throttle than by having it muffled by an electronic nanny.
I applaud your willingness to try this for the sake of science, but I'll put my stake in the ground that your foot, shaky or not, will do better with a more direct connection to the throttle than having your input muffled by an electronic device.
But for a drag strip, I'll still much prefer my foot to control power application to maintain traction...I've never seen a launch control or traction control yet that can do better than I can. I'd love to see you try this in the name of science, but I'm going to put my stake in the ground that your foot, shaky or not, will still work much better with a more direct connection to the throttle than by having it muffled by an electronic nanny.
I applaud your willingness to try this for the sake of science, but I'll put my stake in the ground that your foot, shaky or not, will do better with a more direct connection to the throttle than having your input muffled by an electronic device.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
I'll use it as an excuse to watch this video again.
