Comment about the automatic !
Racer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 437
Likes: 6
These comments always make me laugh. Lets face it, the reason and ONLY reason why somebody would want a manual transmission is to be able to control the gear at any particular time. That or they want to control the launch. If you could do that with a different transmission with the same degree of accuracy or efficiency, then would having the third pedal matter? It wouldn't, and the people attached to the 3rd pedal don't like it from a racing standpoint. If they did they would know that the majority of race cars while having a clutch, don't actually use it like a traditional sycromesh transmission would in a standard car. Hell lots of race cars have a "3rd Pedal which is rally a hand pull for the clutch. That is how most formula cars are, that's how Karts are. That's how F1 cars are. The clutch is hand actuated.
As far as whether it's a dual clutch which is electronically controlled (through hydraulics), or and auto (which is also electronically controlled through hydraulics) is a moot point. The reason why dual clutches are perceived as better than an automatic has to do with a couple key factors. That is 1. they in the past have been better at user controlled precise shifting for both up and down shifts, 2. Have been lighter, and 3. Do a better job and managing heat.
If you could do those 3 things in an auto, then the driver wouldn't know what they were driving was a dual clutch or an auto. That is what's happening with Lexus, that's what's happened with Mercedes, and hopefully what will happen with the auto in the Z06.
As for me, I care only about being able to chose what gear I'm in at any time, and I need it to be instantaneous. If it takes longer for it to change gear than it would for me to do it manually, then I'm out. If it can do it faster, than I could care less if I have a third pedal or not.
As far as whether it's a dual clutch which is electronically controlled (through hydraulics), or and auto (which is also electronically controlled through hydraulics) is a moot point. The reason why dual clutches are perceived as better than an automatic has to do with a couple key factors. That is 1. they in the past have been better at user controlled precise shifting for both up and down shifts, 2. Have been lighter, and 3. Do a better job and managing heat.
If you could do those 3 things in an auto, then the driver wouldn't know what they were driving was a dual clutch or an auto. That is what's happening with Lexus, that's what's happened with Mercedes, and hopefully what will happen with the auto in the Z06.
As for me, I care only about being able to chose what gear I'm in at any time, and I need it to be instantaneous. If it takes longer for it to change gear than it would for me to do it manually, then I'm out. If it can do it faster, than I could care less if I have a third pedal or not.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 299
Likes: 110
From: Northern California
These comments always make me laugh. Lets face it, the reason and ONLY reason why somebody would want a manual transmission is to be able to control the gear at any particular time. That or they want to control the launch. If you could do that with a different transmission with the same degree of accuracy or efficiency, then would having the third pedal matter? It wouldn't, and the people attached to the 3rd pedal don't like it from a racing standpoint. If they did they would know that the majority of race cars while having a clutch, don't actually use it like a traditional sycromesh transmission would in a standard car. Hell lots of race cars have a "3rd Pedal which is rally a hand pull for the clutch. That is how most formula cars are, that's how Karts are. That's how F1 cars are. The clutch is hand actuated.
As far as whether it's a dual clutch which is electronically controlled (through hydraulics), or and auto (which is also electronically controlled through hydraulics) is a moot point. The reason why dual clutches are perceived as better than an automatic has to do with a couple key factors. That is 1. they in the past have been better at user controlled precise shifting for both up and down shifts, 2. Have been lighter, and 3. Do a better job and managing heat.
If you could do those 3 things in an auto, then the driver wouldn't know what they were driving was a dual clutch or an auto. That is what's happening with Lexus, that's what's happened with Mercedes, and hopefully what will happen with the auto in the Z06.
As for me, I care only about being able to chose what gear I'm in at any time, and I need it to be instantaneous. If it takes longer for it to change gear than it would for me to do it manually, then I'm out. If it can do it faster, than I could care less if I have a third pedal or not.
As far as whether it's a dual clutch which is electronically controlled (through hydraulics), or and auto (which is also electronically controlled through hydraulics) is a moot point. The reason why dual clutches are perceived as better than an automatic has to do with a couple key factors. That is 1. they in the past have been better at user controlled precise shifting for both up and down shifts, 2. Have been lighter, and 3. Do a better job and managing heat.
If you could do those 3 things in an auto, then the driver wouldn't know what they were driving was a dual clutch or an auto. That is what's happening with Lexus, that's what's happened with Mercedes, and hopefully what will happen with the auto in the Z06.
As for me, I care only about being able to chose what gear I'm in at any time, and I need it to be instantaneous. If it takes longer for it to change gear than it would for me to do it manually, then I'm out. If it can do it faster, than I could care less if I have a third pedal or not.
There ya go! Just bought my first automatic for myself a couple years ago in a Nissan 370Z, which also has the paddle shifters. Haven't driven an automatic, other than the wife's cars for decades. Although it may not be as quick and responsive as I would have liked, I haven't regretted my decision for a moment. Although this might sound a bit bizarre to many on this forum, the new 8L90 8-speed coming out in the Z06 sold me. Yes, I'm buying the Z06 for it's automatic transmission...... Well, not entirely :-) I've read just about everything there's been written about this new 8-speed and am actually excited about it. None of us will know for sure until we drive one, but I have the feeling GM has probably hit a home run with it.As far as the 3-pedel jockeys are concerned, nobody is going to change their minds on the subject, so don't waist your breath. I have to admit, I felt the same way when I was in my twenties, thirties and even forties. However, the development of automatics and torque converters over the past several years has been huge to the point they definitely have my attention. It's really nice to be able simplify my driving experiences and focus on other things rather than stay so busy shifting gears all the time. But then when I do, all I have to do is which it over to manual mode and use the paddles.... Isn't life grand
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,205
Likes: 21
From: Arlington VA
I disagree with the above posts.
The main reason I want a manual is because the entire process of driving is way more involving and controlled, than it is with other automatic or automated transmissions. I even like the degree of human error that gets added to the equation when driving a manual. Put two drivers in the same car, both automatics at the dragstrip.. and the results are going to be fairly boring. Put both drivers in the same car, both manual transmissions and I guarantee you the outcome is going to be more different than it is more of the same. Thats how much of a difference usual a manual clutch, to do shifting yourself adds to driving excitement equation.
The more "computer controlled" the driving process is, just less enthusiastic and removed for me. It feels robotic vs dramatic. I'm not saying that I do all my driving with the traction & stability control off.. but I can tell you the driving experience is way more involving with less computers involved. And one of the most beautiful things about driving a manual is being able to dump the clutch from a standstill, leaving two long black streaks and then power shifting from 1st to 2nd at redline.. and hearing those tires chirp again. Just thinking about it giving me chill bumps right now!
I have nothing against automatics. Its your car & your money, buy whatever pleases you for whatever reason you have. But please dont try to convince others why YOU think they drive a manual. Who are you to tell me what kind shifting (driving) I should be doing in my car? Why does there need to be a right or a wrong way to drive a car? For me, driving isnt about the fastest laptime.. its about having the most fun. And more often than not that means tires squealing and/or the backend sideways.
Hell I even like driving a manual because it impresses the ladies. There's quite a few women who thinks a man shifting a stick shift is very sexy. And there are plenty of men who think vice versa about women who do their own shifting.
The main reason I want a manual is because the entire process of driving is way more involving and controlled, than it is with other automatic or automated transmissions. I even like the degree of human error that gets added to the equation when driving a manual. Put two drivers in the same car, both automatics at the dragstrip.. and the results are going to be fairly boring. Put both drivers in the same car, both manual transmissions and I guarantee you the outcome is going to be more different than it is more of the same. Thats how much of a difference usual a manual clutch, to do shifting yourself adds to driving excitement equation.
The more "computer controlled" the driving process is, just less enthusiastic and removed for me. It feels robotic vs dramatic. I'm not saying that I do all my driving with the traction & stability control off.. but I can tell you the driving experience is way more involving with less computers involved. And one of the most beautiful things about driving a manual is being able to dump the clutch from a standstill, leaving two long black streaks and then power shifting from 1st to 2nd at redline.. and hearing those tires chirp again. Just thinking about it giving me chill bumps right now!
I have nothing against automatics. Its your car & your money, buy whatever pleases you for whatever reason you have. But please dont try to convince others why YOU think they drive a manual. Who are you to tell me what kind shifting (driving) I should be doing in my car? Why does there need to be a right or a wrong way to drive a car? For me, driving isnt about the fastest laptime.. its about having the most fun. And more often than not that means tires squealing and/or the backend sideways.
Hell I even like driving a manual because it impresses the ladies. There's quite a few women who thinks a man shifting a stick shift is very sexy. And there are plenty of men who think vice versa about women who do their own shifting.
Last edited by Daekwan06; May 22, 2014 at 03:10 PM.
Racer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 437
Likes: 6
There ya go! Just bought my first automatic for myself a couple years ago in a Nissan 370Z, which also has the paddle shifters. Haven't driven an automatic, other than the wife's cars for decades. Although it may not be as quick and responsive as I would have liked, I haven't regretted my decision for a moment. Although this might sound a bit bizarre to many on this forum, the new 8L90 8-speed coming out in the Z06 sold me. Yes, I'm buying the Z06 for it's automatic transmission...... Well, not entirely :-) I've read just about everything there's been written about this new 8-speed and am actually excited about it. None of us will know for sure until we drive one, but I have the feeling GM has probably hit a home run with it.As far as the 3-pedel jockeys are concerned, nobody is going to change their minds on the subject, so don't waist your breath. I have to admit, I felt the same way when I was in my twenties, thirties and even forties. However, the development of automatics and torque converters over the past several years has been huge to the point they definitely have my attention. It's really nice to be able simplify my driving experiences and focus on other things rather than stay so busy shifting gears all the time. But then when I do, all I have to do is which it over to manual mode and use the paddles.... Isn't life grand
I agree that GM will hit a home run with their auto; so much so that the C7Z06 I have ordered is an auto. And I intend that to be a track car, as my present Z is.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,828
Likes: 432
Racer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 299
Likes: 110
From: Northern California
I disagree with the above posts.
The main reason I want a manual is because the entire process of driving is way more involving and controlled, than it is with other automatic or automated transmissions. I even like the degree of human error that gets added to the equation when driving a manual. Put two drivers in the same car, both automatics at the dragstrip.. and the results are going to be fairly boring. Put both drivers in the same car, both manual transmissions and I guarantee you the outcome is going to be more different than it is more of the same. Thats how much of a difference usual a manual clutch, to do shifting yourself adds to driving excitement equation.
The more "computer controlled" the driving process is, just less enthusiastic and removed for me. It feels robotic vs dramatic. I'm not saying that I do all my driving with the traction & stability control off.. but I can tell you the driving experience is way more involving with less computers involved. And one of the most beautiful things about driving a manual is being able to dump the clutch from a standstill, leaving two long black streaks and then power shifting from 1st to 2nd at redline.. and hearing those tires chirp again. Just thinking about it giving me chill bumps right now!
I have nothing against automatics. Its your car & your money, buy whatever pleases you for whatever reason you have. But please dont try to convince others why YOU think they drive a manual. Who are you to tell me what kind shifting (driving) I should be doing in my car? Why does there need to be a right or a wrong way to drive a car? For me, driving isnt about the fastest laptime.. its about having the most fun. And more often than not that means tires squealing and/or the backend sideways.
Hell I even like driving a manual because it impresses the ladies. There's quite a few women who thinks a man shifting a stick shift is very sexy. And there are plenty of men who think vice versa about women who do their own shifting.
The main reason I want a manual is because the entire process of driving is way more involving and controlled, than it is with other automatic or automated transmissions. I even like the degree of human error that gets added to the equation when driving a manual. Put two drivers in the same car, both automatics at the dragstrip.. and the results are going to be fairly boring. Put both drivers in the same car, both manual transmissions and I guarantee you the outcome is going to be more different than it is more of the same. Thats how much of a difference usual a manual clutch, to do shifting yourself adds to driving excitement equation.
The more "computer controlled" the driving process is, just less enthusiastic and removed for me. It feels robotic vs dramatic. I'm not saying that I do all my driving with the traction & stability control off.. but I can tell you the driving experience is way more involving with less computers involved. And one of the most beautiful things about driving a manual is being able to dump the clutch from a standstill, leaving two long black streaks and then power shifting from 1st to 2nd at redline.. and hearing those tires chirp again. Just thinking about it giving me chill bumps right now!
I have nothing against automatics. Its your car & your money, buy whatever pleases you for whatever reason you have. But please dont try to convince others why YOU think they drive a manual. Who are you to tell me what kind shifting (driving) I should be doing in my car? Why does there need to be a right or a wrong way to drive a car? For me, driving isnt about the fastest laptime.. its about having the most fun. And more often than not that means tires squealing and/or the backend sideways.
Hell I even like driving a manual because it impresses the ladies. There's quite a few women who thinks a man shifting a stick shift is very sexy. And there are plenty of men who think vice versa about women who do their own shifting.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,027
Likes: 320
From: N. CA
Tom, there is only one telling Daekwan06 what kind of transmission he will use and that is the manufacturer. Right now, he can select the manual stick shifter if he wishes and he will be happy.
If ya all take a step back and look at what is going on with the transmissions in today's vehicles, it is all to obvious that the automatic with paddle shifters is gaining ground and fast as the prominent transmission of tomorrow. These types of transmissions are being refined more and more and as a result they will become the dominant transmissions with the manual stick shift being relegated to obscurity.
No one else can tell you what you can order with your vehicle, but I will forecast here right now that someday there will be NO manual stick transmission offered in the Corvette. That's right, maybe not tomorrow or next year but once the paddle shifter dominates that will be the case. Many super cars already do that so it is highly likely.
It's called progress..........
If ya all take a step back and look at what is going on with the transmissions in today's vehicles, it is all to obvious that the automatic with paddle shifters is gaining ground and fast as the prominent transmission of tomorrow. These types of transmissions are being refined more and more and as a result they will become the dominant transmissions with the manual stick shift being relegated to obscurity.
No one else can tell you what you can order with your vehicle, but I will forecast here right now that someday there will be NO manual stick transmission offered in the Corvette. That's right, maybe not tomorrow or next year but once the paddle shifter dominates that will be the case. Many super cars already do that so it is highly likely.
It's called progress..........
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 110
From: Austin Texas
It's ACTUALLY a 5.5L LS-based block, with the direct injection off of the LT1 this year.
...the C7.R engine will feature genes from both the outgoing LS engine family and the new LT engine family that will launch with the 2014 Corvette Stingray. Specifically, the engine block itself will remain the LS-derived 5.5L unit, but will add direct injection as seen in the Stingray’s LT1 V8.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,828
Likes: 432
Umm...no.
It's ACTUALLY a 5.5L LS-based block, with the direct injection off of the LT1 this year.
Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/07/...#ixzz32U5YPuvr
It's ACTUALLY a 5.5L LS-based block, with the direct injection off of the LT1 this year.
Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/07/...#ixzz32U5YPuvr
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 24
Tom, there is only one telling Daekwan06 what kind of transmission he will use and that is the manufacturer. Right now, he can select the manual stick shifter if he wishes and he will be happy.
If ya all take a step back and look at what is going on with the transmissions in today's vehicles, it is all to obvious that the automatic with paddle shifters is gaining ground and fast as the prominent transmission of tomorrow. These types of transmissions are being refined more and more and as a result they will become the dominant transmissions with the manual stick shift being relegated to obscurity.
No one else can tell you what you can order with your vehicle, but I will forecast here right now that someday there will be NO manual stick transmission offered in the Corvette. That's right, maybe not tomorrow or next year but once the paddle shifter dominates that will be the case. Many super cars already do that so it is highly likely.
It's called progress..........
If ya all take a step back and look at what is going on with the transmissions in today's vehicles, it is all to obvious that the automatic with paddle shifters is gaining ground and fast as the prominent transmission of tomorrow. These types of transmissions are being refined more and more and as a result they will become the dominant transmissions with the manual stick shift being relegated to obscurity.
No one else can tell you what you can order with your vehicle, but I will forecast here right now that someday there will be NO manual stick transmission offered in the Corvette. That's right, maybe not tomorrow or next year but once the paddle shifter dominates that will be the case. Many super cars already do that so it is highly likely.
It's called progress..........
THAT is the reality of the matter.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
From the link: "The Corvette C6.Rs' LS5.5R is a naturally aspirated race engine, based on the Corvette Z06's 7.0-liter LS7 engine (which in turn was developed with the 7.0L race engine used in the C6.R GT1 cars), built on production cast-aluminum cylinder blocks."
http://www.corvetteracing.com/cars/g...t2-chart.shtml
The chart in this link shows the GT1 C6R 7L engine using the LS7.R engine (4.180" bore/3.875" stroke) while the GT2 C6R 6L engine uses the LS7.R engine (4.180" bore/3.32" stroke) and the GT2 C6R 5.5L engine (4.090" bore/3.185" stroke) uses the GM 5.5L V8.
The 5.5L race engines are built at the Performance Build Center in Wixom.
The 7L LX7.R engines for the race cars have a 4.180" bore and 3.875" stroke, not the 4.125" bore/4" stroke of the LS7...that's why they used the "bowtie" blocks. (BTW, they aren't "bowtie" blocks.) They use those blocks because they are built with larger bores...all things being equal (including displacement), an engine with larger bores (and subsequent shorter stroke) will make more HP than an engine with smaller bores (and subsequent longer stroke). If you do the math, you'll see both engines are 7L but neither engine is a 427...the LS7R is 425 in³ and the LS7 is 428 in³.
The C7R race car uses more production parts than ever...it's mandated by the rules. It uses the aluminum frame from the stock car, the same one built at Bowling Green minus a few small items removed that doesn't affect strength. On the GT2 C6R, the race teams would have actually preferred to use the carbon brakes from the ZR1 but the rules specify steel brakes...in other words, the race car brakes are inferior to the production car.
Should I buy you that special bike that allows back-pedaling...
So now that the facts have eliminated that minor deflection, why would a production engine not last 12 hours at Daytona, Sebring, or Lemans?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
The C4 ZR1 engine was designed and built by Lotus for the Stevens body Esprit. That is why it is narow and tall even though there is plenty of room in a corvette to put the starter under the side of the engine instead of under the intake manifold. GM owned Lotus at the time and saw the potential of the engine. They decided they could make a true super car out of the corvette with that engine and took it from the Esprit to use in the corvette. I have one of the lotus esprit that it was slated to go in.
As a side note, Lotus did not do all of the design work...GM and Mercruiser were involved in the design stage too. Lotus was mainly tasked with developing the engine. Lotus did not build one single LT5 for a production ZR-1, Mercruiser actually did the engine builds.
I've been involved/following the LT5 since 1987, have personally met/talked with Graham Behan who was one of the main engineers with Lotus when the LT5 was developed, and I have many documents/books/articles about the LT5...I am very familiar with the history of the LT5. I also bought a '93 ZR-1 new and still have it. Since the LT5 was never intended for the Esprit, there is no way you have a Lotus Esprit that the LT5 was "slated" to go in. I really have no idea why people make up BS like this...
Racer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 437
Likes: 6
The C4 ZR-1 (not ZR1) was NOT designed and built by Lotus for the Stevens body Esprit. GM did own Lotus at the time and originally wanted them to provide DOHC head for the existing small block. It was decided a clean sheet engine was the way to go...the LT5 was designed and built specifically for the C4 ZR-1 and no other cars.
As a side note, Lotus did not do all of the design work...GM and Mercruiser were involved in the design stage too. Lotus was mainly tasked with developing the engine. Lotus did not build one single LT5 for a production ZR-1, Mercruiser actually did the engine builds.
I've been involved/following the LT5 since 1987, have personally met/talked with Graham Behan who was one of the main engineers with Lotus when the LT5 was developed, and I have many documents/books/articles about the LT5...I am very familiar with the history of the LT5. I also bought a '93 ZR-1 new and still have it. Since the LT5 was never intended for the Esprit, there is no way you have a Lotus Esprit that the LT5 was "slated" to go in. I really have no idea why people make up BS like this...
As a side note, Lotus did not do all of the design work...GM and Mercruiser were involved in the design stage too. Lotus was mainly tasked with developing the engine. Lotus did not build one single LT5 for a production ZR-1, Mercruiser actually did the engine builds.
I've been involved/following the LT5 since 1987, have personally met/talked with Graham Behan who was one of the main engineers with Lotus when the LT5 was developed, and I have many documents/books/articles about the LT5...I am very familiar with the history of the LT5. I also bought a '93 ZR-1 new and still have it. Since the LT5 was never intended for the Esprit, there is no way you have a Lotus Esprit that the LT5 was "slated" to go in. I really have no idea why people make up BS like this...
Mercruiser was heavily involved in design and built each and every one.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,168
Likes: 1,336
From: FLL Florida
The C4 ZR-1 (not ZR1) was NOT designed and built by Lotus for the Stevens body Esprit. GM did own Lotus at the time and originally wanted them to provide DOHC head for the existing small block. It was decided a clean sheet engine was the way to go...the LT5 was designed and built specifically for the C4 ZR-1 and no other cars.
As a side note, Lotus did not do all of the design work...GM and Mercruiser were involved in the design stage too. Lotus was mainly tasked with developing the engine. Lotus did not build one single LT5 for a production ZR-1, Mercruiser actually did the engine builds.
I've been involved/following the LT5 since 1987, have personally met/talked with Graham Behan who was one of the main engineers with Lotus when the LT5 was developed, and I have many documents/books/articles about the LT5...I am very familiar with the history of the LT5. I also bought a '93 ZR-1 new and still have it. Since the LT5 was never intended for the Esprit, there is no way you have a Lotus Esprit that the LT5 was "slated" to go in. I really have no idea why people make up BS like this...
As a side note, Lotus did not do all of the design work...GM and Mercruiser were involved in the design stage too. Lotus was mainly tasked with developing the engine. Lotus did not build one single LT5 for a production ZR-1, Mercruiser actually did the engine builds.
I've been involved/following the LT5 since 1987, have personally met/talked with Graham Behan who was one of the main engineers with Lotus when the LT5 was developed, and I have many documents/books/articles about the LT5...I am very familiar with the history of the LT5. I also bought a '93 ZR-1 new and still have it. Since the LT5 was never intended for the Esprit, there is no way you have a Lotus Esprit that the LT5 was "slated" to go in. I really have no idea why people make up BS like this...
This is a pretty accurate story of the engine.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-corvette-zr-1
Dave McClellan's book, "Corvettes From The Inside", is a must.
Lotus designed a V8 for the Etna race car but the race series went defunct and the program was still born. GM made use of the 70 unemployed Lotus engine engineers under Tony Rudd and came up with the LT5.
It was no good from the start. Midgely insisted on 4.4" bore centers and the engine bay was too small for proper head and cam drive design. The design was compromised. Chevy engine engineers were pissed that a bunch of limies got the job for the new engine but redeemed themselves with the LS engines.
McClellan left under a cloud and Guldstrand lost $1,000 000 with his GS based on the ZR1.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 110
From: Austin Texas
http://www.corvetteracing.com/histor.../racing2.shtml
From the link: "The Corvette C6.Rs' LS5.5R is a naturally aspirated race engine, based on the Corvette Z06's 7.0-liter LS7 engine (which in turn was developed with the 7.0L race engine used in the C6.R GT1 cars), built on production cast-aluminum cylinder blocks."
http://www.corvetteracing.com/cars/g...t2-chart.shtml
The chart in this link shows the GT1 C6R 7L engine using the LS7.R engine (4.180" bore/3.875" stroke) while the GT2 C6R 6L engine uses the LS7.R engine (4.180" bore/3.32" stroke) and the GT2 C6R 5.5L engine (4.090" bore/3.185" stroke) uses the GM 5.5L V8.
The 5.5L race engines are built at the Performance Build Center in Wixom.
The 7L LX7.R engines for the race cars have a 4.180" bore and 3.875" stroke, not the 4.125" bore/4" stroke of the LS7...that's why they used the "bowtie" blocks. (BTW, they aren't "bowtie" blocks.) They use those blocks because they are built with larger bores...all things being equal (including displacement), an engine with larger bores (and subsequent shorter stroke) will make more HP than an engine with smaller bores (and subsequent longer stroke). If you do the math, you'll see both engines are 7L but neither engine is a 427...the LS7R is 425 in³ and the LS7 is 428 in³.
The C7R race car uses more production parts than ever...it's mandated by the rules. It uses the aluminum frame from the stock car, the same one built at Bowling Green minus a few small items removed that doesn't affect strength. On the GT2 C6R, the race teams would have actually preferred to use the carbon brakes from the ZR1 but the rules specify steel brakes...in other words, the race car brakes are inferior to the production car.
Should I buy you that special bike that allows back-pedaling...
So now that the facts have eliminated that minor deflection, why would a production engine not last 12 hours at Daytona, Sebring, or Lemans?
From the link: "The Corvette C6.Rs' LS5.5R is a naturally aspirated race engine, based on the Corvette Z06's 7.0-liter LS7 engine (which in turn was developed with the 7.0L race engine used in the C6.R GT1 cars), built on production cast-aluminum cylinder blocks."
http://www.corvetteracing.com/cars/g...t2-chart.shtml
The chart in this link shows the GT1 C6R 7L engine using the LS7.R engine (4.180" bore/3.875" stroke) while the GT2 C6R 6L engine uses the LS7.R engine (4.180" bore/3.32" stroke) and the GT2 C6R 5.5L engine (4.090" bore/3.185" stroke) uses the GM 5.5L V8.
The 5.5L race engines are built at the Performance Build Center in Wixom.
The 7L LX7.R engines for the race cars have a 4.180" bore and 3.875" stroke, not the 4.125" bore/4" stroke of the LS7...that's why they used the "bowtie" blocks. (BTW, they aren't "bowtie" blocks.) They use those blocks because they are built with larger bores...all things being equal (including displacement), an engine with larger bores (and subsequent shorter stroke) will make more HP than an engine with smaller bores (and subsequent longer stroke). If you do the math, you'll see both engines are 7L but neither engine is a 427...the LS7R is 425 in³ and the LS7 is 428 in³.
The C7R race car uses more production parts than ever...it's mandated by the rules. It uses the aluminum frame from the stock car, the same one built at Bowling Green minus a few small items removed that doesn't affect strength. On the GT2 C6R, the race teams would have actually preferred to use the carbon brakes from the ZR1 but the rules specify steel brakes...in other words, the race car brakes are inferior to the production car.
Should I buy you that special bike that allows back-pedaling...
So now that the facts have eliminated that minor deflection, why would a production engine not last 12 hours at Daytona, Sebring, or Lemans?
They started with a C5.R Bowtie RACING block, and went from there. They put those special $9k blocks in ALL the Z06's, right?
EVERYTHING on it was designed for extreme performance cycles...from the thicker webs in the castings to the oiling system.
"Production Block"...
Yeah, they just pulled one off the line and sent it back to the racing area for assembly. Right!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 152
Times have changed from the golden" years of drag racing. Back in the 50's & 60's when there were "stock" classes, there were different classes for the automatics from the manuals. The "good" racers(ones that held the national records)were slower in their automatics than their counterpoints with their manuals. The manuals held the advantage.
Believe me when I say a "good" driver could shift his 4 speed Muncie, with a Hurst shifter, faster than an automatic. Popularity of the automatic in drag racing came about when they introduced "bracket" racing where consistency is the key, not quickness.
I don't believe there is anyway I could shift my C6 Z06's manual transmission anywhere as fast I could shift my Muncie's back in the 60's, thus my quickest 1/4 times today would be driving an automatic.
There have been many improvements in factory stock automatic transmissions, but I don't believe todays manual transmissions can be shifted as fast as the manual transmissions of 50 years ago.
Believe me when I say a "good" driver could shift his 4 speed Muncie, with a Hurst shifter, faster than an automatic. Popularity of the automatic in drag racing came about when they introduced "bracket" racing where consistency is the key, not quickness.
I don't believe there is anyway I could shift my C6 Z06's manual transmission anywhere as fast I could shift my Muncie's back in the 60's, thus my quickest 1/4 times today would be driving an automatic.
There have been many improvements in factory stock automatic transmissions, but I don't believe todays manual transmissions can be shifted as fast as the manual transmissions of 50 years ago.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,975
Likes: 980
From: Clinton Township MI
C7 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Ask Jason @ Katech how "production" the blocks were that they used to build the engines for Pratt-Miller...I think I can hear him laughing all the way from here.
They started with a C5.R Bowtie RACING block, and went from there. They put those special $9k blocks in ALL the Z06's, right?
EVERYTHING on it was designed for extreme performance cycles...from the thicker webs in the castings to the oiling system.
"Production Block"...
Yeah, they just pulled one off the line and sent it back to the racing area for assembly. Right!
They started with a C5.R Bowtie RACING block, and went from there. They put those special $9k blocks in ALL the Z06's, right?
EVERYTHING on it was designed for extreme performance cycles...from the thicker webs in the castings to the oiling system.
"Production Block"...
Yeah, they just pulled one off the line and sent it back to the racing area for assembly. Right!
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 110
From: Austin Texas
The Corvette C6.Rs' engines are developed, built and maintained by GM. Designated LS5.5R, the naturally aspirated powerplant is based on the Corvette Z06's 7.0-liter LS7 engine (which in turn was developed with the 7.0-liter race engine used in the C6.R GT1 cars, and is built with a production-based cast-aluminum cylinder block.).
Not saying it isn't possible that they've changed the block design on the production units to be able to use them, but when they came out it was different.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
Ask Jason @ Katech how "production" the blocks were that they used to build the engines for Pratt-Miller...I think I can hear him laughing all the way from here.
They started with a C5.R Bowtie RACING block, and went from there. They put those special $9k blocks in ALL the Z06's, right?
EVERYTHING on it was designed for extreme performance cycles...from the thicker webs in the castings to the oiling system.
"Production Block"...
Yeah, they just pulled one off the line and sent it back to the racing area for assembly. Right!
They started with a C5.R Bowtie RACING block, and went from there. They put those special $9k blocks in ALL the Z06's, right?
EVERYTHING on it was designed for extreme performance cycles...from the thicker webs in the castings to the oiling system.
"Production Block"...
Yeah, they just pulled one off the line and sent it back to the racing area for assembly. Right!
