how about when you get stuck in traffic, are manuals still more fun? Fast shifting and responsive automatics are so much fun and of course are faster. Your comments reminded me of someone that said a certain car wasn't so much fun cause it had so much grip, he preferred a car that had bad grip cause it would slide all over the place which he considered was more fun...

The fact that GM decided to offer both options is precisely why threads like debates like this shouldn't exist in the first place, don't like it okay cool get the other one.

 

I have tried the auto's with paddle shifters and they are not for me. So I will be ordering mine with a manual. I could care less what others buy, it is their money. I think it is great that GM is providing options for us buyers. I just don't get why many think they have to push their preference on others. And I do accept that a good auto is superior to a manual, it just doesn't matter to ME.

 

not all paddleshifted automatics are the same, infact they are ALL very different. The new autos only use the torque converter at launch then lock up and is essentialy a muti-clutch transmission.

 

Sorry, I should have quoted a previous post. I was actually more annoyed with the guys saying the MANUAL was the only way to go. I have driven a new PDK Porsche and it worked well. I really do think it is great that GM is giving us both options and I can accept that the auto provides better track and real-world performance. I just prefer manual so that is what I will buy. It does not bother me at all if you buy an Auto, it's your money!

 

Looks like I am on the same fence as you ... I do luv the manual but I also drive my Vette and many times when in traffic miss the advantage of the auto. Time will tell on what I will choose...

 

I believe his point is that kind of cooler should be standard on the car rather than something he has to do after the fact if they are going to market it as truly track ready.

 

Love your last sentence!

 

Had the Z06 been offered in an Auto, I would have had one years ago.. about time GM realized the market they could corner with an auto.. and yes.. seriously considering one now..

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
I'll preface my comment by stating that IMO you provide some VERY good info and I really appreciate it. I know you have a good amount of knowledge and firsthand experience on-track.

However, considering I can overheat the A6 in about 12-14 minutes on an "easy" track like Daytona-Rolex, I am very skeptical that the A8 will really be "track certified" as GM/Tadge is claiming. Very skeptical. This weekend, I'll be at Sebring. 10-15* hotter than Daytona was and a lot harder on hardware. I'd be surprised if I could get in a warmup and 4 hot laps in my A6 C7. I don't even consider taking the it.

IMO, GM is going to have a LOT of convincing to do to make me believe the A8 is really going to be "track certified" for "98 percent" of drivers.
S.






I agree 100%. I would find it hard to believe that it wont go into "limp mode" once tracked...hopefully I am wrong but....

 

Be prepared to be amazed...

From everything I can gather...the torque converter locks up fairly quick in the A8, so that reduces the heat generated. They should be in the hands of journalists in the next few months...and you know they are gonna abuse the crap out of them to see if GM's claims are true!

I anticipate more than a few people will be eating some crow and humble pie before it's all over.

 

All I think "track certified" means, is it can get around a track and turn in a good time for what it is, power wise, gearing, etc. To think that the Z06 can hold up under strenuous racing conditions for long periods of time is unrealistic to me. Maybe the A8 will have some advanced tech that let's it operate for extended periods, with out excessive heat build up, going into limp mode or other non-performing behavior etc, and really impress us all. Only time will tell.

 

I believe what GM means by "track certified" is that the A8 will hold up to what MOST owners will subject them to: 20-30 min lapping sessions.

Let's be honest here... less than .5% will actually turn their Z06/Z07 into a real dedicated track car running 2+ hour enduros. For GM to build it to those specifications would seriously increase the bottom line price of the car.

Build it for the 98%, because the other 2% will throw out what they don't want or exchange what breaks with something that doesn't.

 

"MOST" owners won't even track them. I'd be surprised if 1-2% of new Corvettes are ever tracked. And far less than .5% will turn a brand new Z06 into a wheel-to-wheel track car.

But for those of us who do run 25-30 minute sessions, particularly at tracks with a high heat load such as those in the southeast and other areas like Texas, I am skeptical GM will be able to control transmission fluid temps. But I hope they can. So far, we've only got some vague comments from Tadge and/or Harlan.
Like I stated earlier, 12-minutes on an easy track like Daytona-Rolex isn't exactly impressive. And it did that both sessions that I ran it. After that, there wasn't really any point to taking it back out again.

And to your earlier comment about journalists and how they will "abuse the crap" out of these cars. They're not going to punish them anywhere near what those of us who track them at 80-100% will over 30-minute sessions 4-5 times a day for the weekend. They'll run a few hot laps at VIR or Mazda, pit in, look at data, switch drivers then take them back out again. That being said, I wouldn't expect a bone stock car to be able to handle such abuse without at least some minor changes such as fluid and pads.

But IMO, if they are going to market the A8 Z06 as "track certified" (and it's right there on the GM website), they're going to look foolish if some of us take them out and overheat the trans into limp mode halfway into a session. I hope they get it right!

S.

 

I agree and they need to build this transmission to be damn near bullit proof. If people can modify the cars and the trans live that will speak volumes for GM.

 

Initially I put .1%...and my first gut check should have left it at that.

VERY few will turn this car into a dedicated track car. Maybe a few dozen tops...worldwide.

I think .5% will be the track/autocross guys like me, and the rest are going to drive them strictly on the street and look cool. That's 1/2 of 1%...if they sell 30k Z06/Z07 units a year, that's 150 people. It's a reasonable amount...might be a little high but pretty close I think.

 

This is true for any sports car. And it doesn't matter.
I don't think it is so important how many potential customer will track it. It is much more important how many potential customers CARE that it can be tracked. That care that it has thoroughbred race track DNA. Most people that have 200MPH+ capable cars don't ever even get near that. What percentage of bugattis have gone over 200? or even over 150? probably not many. But that is not really a track car. Another example would be the new LaFerrari, 918, mclaren p1, etc. It is the KNOWING what they can do that entices the buyers. Most of them won't actually do it. Hell, i bet lot of them don't even actually drive them much if at all.. just look at them and "know" that they have all this capability. It is sad, but true.

 

Sorry...but if you put ANY of those cars on a race track and ran them hard, they would ALL fail.

These owners know it...anyone knows it.

Why else do they change nearly every major component when converting them to race cars?

It's fairly simple...they are not built for racing, but for driving.

You want a RACE car? BUILD a race car...

 

They will look foolish to those of us who really want the car to be track capable for more than a couple of laps. As has been stated though most want the car for the looks. I believe it is cost prohibitive to build a comfortable street car that will stand up to hard track use for 20 or more minutes, especially in warm weather.

 

I test drove an M5 today and didn't like the DCT. It was quick but clunky. I hope the c7z06 auto is crisp, quick and firm.

I'm probably keeping my C6Z06 but am looking for an auto alternative (m, amg, Other?)

 

ok, well that is interesting. what would be the biggest things they would have to change on a mclaren p1 to keep it from failing. And i guess it all depends on the definition of "ran them hard".. what is an example of that.. for instance x number of laps pushing it 9/10ths, at xxx track. Just to be clear, i am not questioning you because i doubt you, but rather i am hoping to learn something.