Hi Guys,
I'm new to this forum, but was following Richard's build on another forum for several years. Richard told me recently he was updating his progress in this thread, so it's been great to catch up. I think he and I are the only two guys to have installed this BMW engine into a C3 chassis, but he started his first, so I got a LOT of great ideas from him. I'm not trying to hijack his thread by discussing my build. Instead, I'm just providing some background for reference. My car started life as a '77 coupe with an automatic. It now has a fiberglass '69 Ferrari Daytona body, which is why I opted to install the BMW V12. The Ferrari was a V12, so it only made sense that a replica should have a V12, too. The biggest difference between Richard's build and mine is that he is a FAR better fabricator than I. I'm more of a "get it running and drive it" kind of guy. Having said that, I retained as much of the stock BMW pieces as I could (like the intake manifolds and dual distributors). At Richard's suggestion, I did use the Megasquirt MS3Pro ECU, which has been great. I've got over 25K miles on the setup since I "finished" it. I put finished in quotes, since I'm always tweaking it, but it's mostly been trouble-free, and I use it as my daily driver. I live in Atlanta, and I've made several long trips to Dallas, Raleigh, Toledo, and Chicago, so it's not been babied. It's a beast. I'm sure an LS motor could have been made faster, but I had a 427 BBC in it before I did this swap, and this setup is every bit as fast as that was. I included two pics for reference, but as I said, I'm not trying to hijack his thread. I just thought I might be able to provide a couple of "lessons learned" comments to help out.

Now that I've caught up on what he's done in the last two years, there are a couple of things I'd like to comment on. First of all, with regard to the three cylinders with fouled plugs, I'd focus on the balancing of the ITB setup before chasing down any other rabbit holes. The injectors you're using are very reliable, and your ignition setup is solid. Since most of your running has been at idle, ANY slight difference in the balancing of the throttle opening will have a huge difference in the mixture. You were wise to add an IAC circuit. That brings me to my second comment. Since your using a single IAC motor (a good idea), it is important that the airflow between the IAC motor and each cylinder be the same. The only way to accomplish this is to either have equal length "runners" between the IAC motor and each cylinder (not practical), or as much volume between the motor and all cylinders as possible. The way you're running it now, I'm concerned that the front cylinders will hog all the airflow, and that not much will be left to travel through the small tubes to the back cylinders. I understand space is a premium in that valley area, but rather than use the AN6 hose to route the air down the valley, I think you'd get a smoother idle if you ran something more like AN12 down the length of the valley and tap off that to each of your vacuum fuel lines with AN6. It would also eliminate the need to have that fuel filter in the setup.

Looking forward to actually seeing the car on the road soon. I'm sure you are! Good luck getting it dialed in. While I don't have an ITB setup on mine, I do have a pretty solid tuning file for the MS3Pro that might save you some time, if you're interested. I'll be following this thread closely from now on. It's great stuff!

 

Where did you happen to find a body?I understand Ferrari sued somebody over making those and they haven't been producing him since I thought about doing one of those myself

 

I actually bought the car on eBay several years ago. You're right, Ferrari shut down all the companies that were making them back in the '80s, but the cars/bodies they made are still out there. Mine was a complete car when I bought it in 2007, but back then, it had a 427 with a Turbo 350 automatic. They're still out there on eBay and other sites, if you look. Search for "Daytona replica", because Ferrari still shuts down adds on eBay, if they say "Ferrari" anywhere in the add, and it's a replica. A lot of adds even go so far as to say F@rr@ri, so it doesn't trigger eBay to drop the add!

 

Hey CY-

First of all, with regard to the three cylinders with fouled plugs, I'd focus on the balancing of the ITB setup before chasing down any other rabbit holes.

I bought a manometer and all the TB were the very close- in fact surprisingly high vacuum at 1800RPM

The injectors you're using are very reliable, and your ignition setup is solid. Since most of your running has been at idle, ANY slight difference in the balancing of the throttle opening will have a huge difference in the mixture.

After totally redoing the throttle linkage -I plugged up each TB vacuum port- and just used a rubber tube- blew in it so see if there were any leaks- none found.

I did redo all the sparkplug wires- when in test mode w/ the laptop- i was getting a weak spark on a few plugs. So I went with two V6 coil pacs- mounted them one each side- resistance checked each plug wire- they were within a couple hundred Ω- do realize that's at DC..but tried to match as close as possible.

You were wise to add an IAC circuit. That brings me to my second comment. Since your using a single IAC motor (a good idea), it is important that the airflow between the IAC motor and each cylinder be the same. The only way to accomplish this is to either have equal length "runners" between the IAC motor and each cylinder (not practical), or as much volume between the motor and all cylinders as possible. The way you're running it now, I'm concerned that the front cylinders will hog all the airflow, and that not much will be left to travel through the small tubes to the back cylinders. I understand space is a premium in that valley area, but rather than use the AN6 hose to route the air down the valley, I think you'd get a smoother idle if you ran something more like AN12 down the length of the valley and tap off that to each of your vacuum fuel lines with AN6. It would also eliminate the need to have that fuel filter in the setup.

Yep- have some AN12 and 16 laying around...the AN6 barely fit- so that was the idea of the fuel filter vacuum canister. i did change the layout from my original design- see below. i searched high and low for any info on vacuum and ITBs but there is none to be found.







Looking forward to actually seeing the car on the road soon. I'm sure you are! Good luck getting it dialed in. While I don't have an ITB setup on mine, I do have a pretty solid tuning file for the MS3Pro that might save you some time, if you're interested. I'll be following this thread closely from now on. It's great stuff!

Thank you sir- wish the Walter Mitty was going on this weekend- I'd stop by and give you a visit.

Hopefully tomorrow- I'll roll it out and fire it up- new plug wires-coils - IAC & vacuum lines and the fuel pressure gauge

I WOULD appreciate the file you have on your car- If you could email it to me. I got a laptop a few months ago that has a RS232port on it versus the USB.

Richard

 

Look up McBurnie Daytona.......the guys that made the black one in Miami Vice.....

Jebby

 

Thanks CY!!! I got the file.

Rolled it out in to the sun... Got the new tune loaded -fired right up- new fuel pressure gauge was working great.... then started to stumble and died. It had popped a fuse for the coils???

So replaced it- started up, running rough then stalled again. Long story short- found out I hadn't changed the dwell setting when I changed coils...brand new ones are burned up...nothing some money can't fix!!!

UPDATE-

Spent the last couple nights going up and down- left and right all over for my tune.

A lot of googoling and set the dwell correct on the new coils. This afternoon ran by the junkyard and picked up a couple coil pack-

It fired right up- still running to rich- messed with it - let it self tune - but A/F ratio was stuck around 12...way too rich. CRAP....

My new fuel pressure gauge was reading right at 57PSI- rock solid- but was 4 BAR when I thought I had a 3.5Bar regulator.

Some quick searching - the flow for the injectors was rated at 3BAR...plug that into a calculator and I'm off +14% on the flow rate....

So I raised the flow in the set up- loaded it up in the ECU- car light right off and AF was 14.7!!!

I'm pretty stoked!!! One big step forward-

New side vent- I think will look better when I get the real factory sidepipes on-

 

Good looking car, I've really been enjoying your build thread. I have to say you are a very patient man and it is paying off .

 

Great job, Richard. My experience with this engine has shown me that fuel pressure is way more important that I had originally believed. This will also become evident when you start doing power runs. On my original setup, the fuel pressure would drop under heavy load, so I could never get it to run correctly under power. I did not originally have a fuel pressure gauge, so I never knew exactly what was going on. Once I installed the gauge, the problem became evident. I changed the fuel pump and fuel line routing and Voila!, it ran great.

Also, where did you get those side pipes? I've got a '78 coupe that has side pipes, but they don't look nearly as good as those! Do they get hot when running?

 

Looks great, Richard!
When do we get to hear what a V12 sounds like through sidepipes??

 

 

Don't bother with the hood. Looks great as is.

 

Truly an incredible build!

 

Thanks!!! I'm going to show the wife the "patient man" part!!!


Yes- the fuel pressure gauge is one heck of a quick way to analyze whats going on!!!

The sidepipe covers are just the fiberglass ones that have been chrome flashed. I have heat shield between the outside 4" pipes and the fiberglass- and on the 2˝" inner pipe- so thay don't get hot at all.

Thanks Chris- working on it...tomorrow looks to be a nice day!!!

It's probably run cooler...my luck I'll have a flock of birds fly over!!!

And after looking over your build- that's a heck of a compliment!! Thanks!!


**********************Yesterday- was a good day!!!********************************

New coils- fired up- running smooth. Got the A/F ratio where it is supposed to be and let it idle till I ran out of gas!!!

The problem was- it just kept falling on it's face when I'd rev it up. Looked over the log- no real vacuum. WTH???


I took my manometer and it looked good...So did some more research - found a thread build of a Datsun z with the same throttle bodies I'm running.

Well- there is a LEAK- or what the manufacturer calls a idle balancing - HOWEVER- the piece that came with them was too short- creating a passage before the butterfly.

Problem solved!!! I hope!!

pic from manufacturer- Thought I was doing it right-



Here's the difference one on the right is correct length to STOP the bypass-





Here's where the vacuum is leaking- 12 small holes will do it!!!

 

Hard enough to diagnose this kind of thing on a stock build, let alone one as complex as yours. Good find! Hope that’s the fix. Guess you gotta get some gas to find out.😀😀😀

 

Still messing with getting the details worked out- motor and tune dialed in.

I finally have a respectable vacuum at idle around 51kpa which comes out to around 14in/hg. So for ITBs- I'm really happy with that!!!

Still working on the Dry sump- too much oil showing up in the breather vent tank. So I either have too much oil- or will have to figure how to get the vent higher... at idle (1150RPM) it reading a solid low 30's PSI

I'm going to mess with the brakes this weekend- and actually see if it'll drive around!!!

it's reving up- not falling on it's face. And you can hear the exhaust!!!


Data log- some good numbers- floating around 14.7 AFR and finally getting some vacuum- floating around 51kpa- idle a little high 1150-1200RPM- but have not turned on the IAC system.

 

Nice work Richard.

 

I can't wait to hear that car going down the road!

Kael

 

Read this whole thread tonight, there goes 4 hours I'll never get back.
Interesting to see how many things changed along the way.
A lot of people don't successfully commit a decade to a marriage never mind a car build.
Any updates on where you are at now?
I have looked at tuning on BMW's, have two, and what I learned is that the injectors come with a calibration value that must be input tot he ECU program to allow them to match flow under different RPM's etc.. Does your aftermarket ECU allow for that?
Great build and congratulations on the C3 of the year win.

 

Thank you!!!

HAHA- between two wives, I have over 10 years!!!

Awaiting a custom Alternator- the small case alternator was just not going to do it- I found a Toyota Sequoia 160A alternator that would fit with a little work on the case- and was able to go with a smaller pulley to get the current up at idle. Hopefully pick it up next week.

I'm working on the brakes right now- making sure I don't have any leaks before it fill it w/ fluid.

Have been just finish wiring- bolting up the front grill/bumper/ wiring up front- little stuff.

Also redid the breather of the dry sump- used a shorter filter to keep oil from filling it up- really tough getting it too much height.

A bunch of small stuff- but it's getting close!!!

The tuning is handled by the Megasquirt MS3Pro-

Initially you set the flow of the injectors at the fuel pressure- size of the engine- number of cylinders and it handles the pulse-widths from there.

Thanks for reading...I'll post some updates hopefully in a week or so.

 

Looking forward to you getting your very complex build done way before my simple, mostly stock build Richard! Lol