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My first rebuild
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
If you have your new bushings you'll see how they slide in. The rust blurs the lines a bit. I mostly worked on the outer flanged edge. Working my way around first pushing straight in then prying the bushing out wards. It's a slow process walkin theses suckers out but it keeps you from crushing the A arm
You can also use heat on the A arm to expand the hole, just not too hot, rubber burns and you'll smoke yourself out! Ask me how I know
You can also use heat on the A arm to expand the hole, just not too hot, rubber burns and you'll smoke yourself out! Ask me how I know
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Machine shop called, he said the block is in good shape, just needs cleaned and honed. He said the cylinders were 4&31 before honing. He also said the crank was on the low side and just needs polished, $150. He said he suspects the heads are my problem but let's get the short block built and then look at them. Oh! He also said the rings were plum wore out.
Last edited by FatCat; Dec 5, 2012 at 12:34 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 379
From: Woodinville WA
Machine shop called, he said the block is in good shape, just needs cleaned and honed. He said the cylinders were 4&31 before honing. He also said the crank was on the low side and just needs polished, $150. He said he suspects the heads are my problem but let's get the short block built and then look at them. Oh! He also said the rings were plum wore out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 379
From: Woodinville WA
If you have your new bushings you'll see how they slide in. The rust blurs the lines a bit. I mostly worked on the outer flanged edge. Working my way around first pushing straight in then prying the bushing out wards. It's a slow process walkin theses suckers out but it keeps you from crushing the A arm
You can also use heat on the A arm to expand the hole, just not too hot, rubber burns and you'll smoke yourself out! Ask me how I know
You can also use heat on the A arm to expand the hole, just not too hot, rubber burns and you'll smoke yourself out! Ask me how I know
I realize I forgot something in the pictures, the easiest way to get the outer shell out is to simply put your wide blade on the air hammer and crush the shell into center shell (if needed, do it on two sides). But first, get that center bushing loose first. The outside is easy, but if it's knocked loose first, the inside may end up so bad that you'll have to melt the rubber out, remove the outer shell, then cut a slot into the center shell to knock it apart (yeah, I know this one well)...
to get the center to move, put the bolt into the cross shaft where it's about flush with the a-arm, stand the a-arm on its end (and on the bolt), then put your pointy bit in your air hammer and knock on the center sleeve with the pointy bit until it moves. Then do the crush, then get your pointy bit back on, remove the center bolt, then knock the center sleeve out.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
I realize I forgot something in the pictures, the easiest way to get the outer shell out is to simply put your wide blade on the air hammer and crush the shell into center shell (if needed, do it on two sides). But first, get that center bushing loose first. The outside is easy, but if it's knocked loose first, the inside may end up so bad that you'll have to melt the rubber out, remove the outer shell, then cut a slot into the center shell to knock it apart (yeah, I know this one well)...
to get the center to move, put the bolt into the cross shaft where it's about flush with the a-arm, stand the a-arm on its end (and on the bolt), then put your pointy bit in your air hammer and knock on the center sleeve with the pointy bit until it moves. Then do the crush, then get your pointy bit back on, remove the center bolt, then knock the center sleeve out.
to get the center to move, put the bolt into the cross shaft where it's about flush with the a-arm, stand the a-arm on its end (and on the bolt), then put your pointy bit in your air hammer and knock on the center sleeve with the pointy bit until it moves. Then do the crush, then get your pointy bit back on, remove the center bolt, then knock the center sleeve out.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
Machine shop called, he said the block is in good shape, just needs cleaned and honed. He said the cylinders were 4&31 before honing. He also said the crank was on the low side and just needs polished, $150. He said he suspects the heads are my problem but let's get the short block built and then look at them. Oh! He also said the rings were plum wore out.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Again, there are guys here that will say I'm crazy for even suggesting this, but you can polish that crank yourself for whatever it costs you to get some 500 grit emery cloth. Not sure what he meant by "4 & 31" (maybe .0314" over STD.), but it sounds like he's telling you that the bores are OK to re-use with a little honing. You can do that yourself too...how much of this do you feel comfortable doing, and do you plan on assembling this thing yourself? If you polish the crank, hone the bores, fit the rings, and assemble the engine yourself you can save a LOT of money...
The best I could understand was th 4&31 simply meant since the bores are already .30 over bore they had only worn 1 thousands more and after the home should be 2 1000 thousands or less so they don't need bored.
I am all about saving money but thought letting him do those smaller tasks may be best.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
Hey brother! I am wanting to rebuild it myself, I already told him to do the hone, polish and clean the block. He is also going to see of he has a piston that will work. He thought he did.
The best I could understand was th 4&31 simply meant since the bores are already .30 over bore they had only worn 1 thousands more and after the home should be 2 1000 thousands or less so they don't need bored.
I am all about saving money but thought letting him do those smaller tasks may be best.
The best I could understand was th 4&31 simply meant since the bores are already .30 over bore they had only worn 1 thousands more and after the home should be 2 1000 thousands or less so they don't need bored.
I am all about saving money but thought letting him do those smaller tasks may be best.
The machine shop is gonna want your new pistons and the type of rings your using to finish the block. I used to sit down with them and call summit, Jegs or PAW from their office with everything written down. Sometimes you'll get a chose, like gap less rings over standard moly or head gasket thickness and its always good to yell across the shop to get the right answer!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
Fatcat, it's been my experience that most machine shops will try to 'lean' you in the direction of paying them to do some things that you can do yourself. When I started doing some of those things myself I thought to myself "Self, why didn't you do that sooner?"
Not sure how well you know your machinist, but it sounds like he's being a good businessman and lobbying to build you a shortblock, i.e.,hone the bores, fit the rings, polish the crank, and do all the assembly work himself. For me, that's a Saturday in my home garage. For him, maybe $600(?) Good business for him, not so much for you. You can buy a honer at Autozone, Pep boys, etc. for around $20 that will put a pattern on the walls and we can all walk you through how to use it. Fit the rings using a feeler gage and some small half-round or jeweler's files. Polish the crank using emery cloth, etc.
Some here may say I'm nuts for doing things this way; these weren't race motors I was building, but one went 50,000 miles in my '72 C20 truck, and was still strong when I pulled it out and sold it to a friend for $400. It sounds to me like you don't have a piggy bank full of hundreds laying around, and as long as you have a solid block, eight good pistons that fit within tolerances, put a decent-looking pattern on the walls, and can put this thing together with correct ring end gaps it will run forever if you don't abuse it. As I mentioned earlier, if you beat on this kind of rebuild you're asking for trouble, but if you just want a reliable, leak-free runner the there's nothing wrong with doing it this way.
Bottom line here, the GM line assemblers weren't rocket scientists, and you don't need to be either. Lord knows I'm not!
Gotta go....more to come
Not sure how well you know your machinist, but it sounds like he's being a good businessman and lobbying to build you a shortblock, i.e.,hone the bores, fit the rings, polish the crank, and do all the assembly work himself. For me, that's a Saturday in my home garage. For him, maybe $600(?) Good business for him, not so much for you. You can buy a honer at Autozone, Pep boys, etc. for around $20 that will put a pattern on the walls and we can all walk you through how to use it. Fit the rings using a feeler gage and some small half-round or jeweler's files. Polish the crank using emery cloth, etc.
Some here may say I'm nuts for doing things this way; these weren't race motors I was building, but one went 50,000 miles in my '72 C20 truck, and was still strong when I pulled it out and sold it to a friend for $400. It sounds to me like you don't have a piggy bank full of hundreds laying around, and as long as you have a solid block, eight good pistons that fit within tolerances, put a decent-looking pattern on the walls, and can put this thing together with correct ring end gaps it will run forever if you don't abuse it. As I mentioned earlier, if you beat on this kind of rebuild you're asking for trouble, but if you just want a reliable, leak-free runner the there's nothing wrong with doing it this way.
Bottom line here, the GM line assemblers weren't rocket scientists, and you don't need to be either. Lord knows I'm not!
Gotta go....more to come
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Fatcat, it's been my experience that most machine shops will try to 'lean' you in the direction of paying them to do some things that you can do yourself. When I started doing some of those things myself I thought to myself "Self, why didn't you do that sooner?"
Not sure how well you know your machinist, but it sounds like he's being a good businessman and lobbying to build you a shortblock, i.e.,hone the bores, fit the rings, polish the crank, and do all the assembly work himself. For me, that's a Saturday in my home garage. For him, maybe $600(?) Good business for him, not so much for you. You can buy a honer at Autozone, Pep boys, etc. for around $20 that will put a pattern on the walls and we can all walk you through how to use it. Fit the rings using a feeler gage and some small half-round or jeweler's files. Polish the crank using emery cloth, etc.
Some here may say I'm nuts for doing things this way; these weren't race motors I was building, but one went 50,000 miles in my '72 C20 truck, and was still strong when I pulled it out and sold it to a friend for $400. It sounds to me like you don't have a piggy bank full of hundreds laying around, and as long as you have a solid block, eight good pistons that fit within tolerances, put a decent-looking pattern on the walls, and can put this thing together with correct ring end gaps it will run forever if you don't abuse it. As I mentioned earlier, if you beat on this kind of rebuild you're asking for trouble, but if you just want a reliable, leak-free runner the there's nothing wrong with doing it this way.
Bottom line here, the GM line assemblers weren't rocket scientists, and you don't need to be either. Lord knows I'm not!
Gotta go....more to come
Not sure how well you know your machinist, but it sounds like he's being a good businessman and lobbying to build you a shortblock, i.e.,hone the bores, fit the rings, polish the crank, and do all the assembly work himself. For me, that's a Saturday in my home garage. For him, maybe $600(?) Good business for him, not so much for you. You can buy a honer at Autozone, Pep boys, etc. for around $20 that will put a pattern on the walls and we can all walk you through how to use it. Fit the rings using a feeler gage and some small half-round or jeweler's files. Polish the crank using emery cloth, etc.
Some here may say I'm nuts for doing things this way; these weren't race motors I was building, but one went 50,000 miles in my '72 C20 truck, and was still strong when I pulled it out and sold it to a friend for $400. It sounds to me like you don't have a piggy bank full of hundreds laying around, and as long as you have a solid block, eight good pistons that fit within tolerances, put a decent-looking pattern on the walls, and can put this thing together with correct ring end gaps it will run forever if you don't abuse it. As I mentioned earlier, if you beat on this kind of rebuild you're asking for trouble, but if you just want a reliable, leak-free runner the there's nothing wrong with doing it this way.
Bottom line here, the GM line assemblers weren't rocket scientists, and you don't need to be either. Lord knows I'm not!
Gotta go....more to come
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 379
From: Woodinville WA
Fatcat, it's been my experience that most machine shops will try to 'lean' you in the direction of paying them to do some things that you can do yourself. When I started doing some of those things myself I thought to myself "Self, why didn't you do that sooner?"
Not sure how well you know your machinist, but it sounds like he's being a good businessman and lobbying to build you a shortblock, i.e.,hone the bores, fit the rings, polish the crank, and do all the assembly work himself. For me, that's a Saturday in my home garage. For him, maybe $600(?) Good business for him, not so much for you. You can buy a honer at Autozone, Pep boys, etc. for around $20 that will put a pattern on the walls and we can all walk you through how to use it. Fit the rings using a feeler gage and some small half-round or jeweler's files. Polish the crank using emery cloth, etc.
Some here may say I'm nuts for doing things this way; these weren't race motors I was building, but one went 50,000 miles in my '72 C20 truck, and was still strong when I pulled it out and sold it to a friend for $400. It sounds to me like you don't have a piggy bank full of hundreds laying around, and as long as you have a solid block, eight good pistons that fit within tolerances, put a decent-looking pattern on the walls, and can put this thing together with correct ring end gaps it will run forever if you don't abuse it. As I mentioned earlier, if you beat on this kind of rebuild you're asking for trouble, but if you just want a reliable, leak-free runner the there's nothing wrong with doing it this way.
Bottom line here, the GM line assemblers weren't rocket scientists, and you don't need to be either. Lord knows I'm not!
Gotta go....more to come
Not sure how well you know your machinist, but it sounds like he's being a good businessman and lobbying to build you a shortblock, i.e.,hone the bores, fit the rings, polish the crank, and do all the assembly work himself. For me, that's a Saturday in my home garage. For him, maybe $600(?) Good business for him, not so much for you. You can buy a honer at Autozone, Pep boys, etc. for around $20 that will put a pattern on the walls and we can all walk you through how to use it. Fit the rings using a feeler gage and some small half-round or jeweler's files. Polish the crank using emery cloth, etc.
Some here may say I'm nuts for doing things this way; these weren't race motors I was building, but one went 50,000 miles in my '72 C20 truck, and was still strong when I pulled it out and sold it to a friend for $400. It sounds to me like you don't have a piggy bank full of hundreds laying around, and as long as you have a solid block, eight good pistons that fit within tolerances, put a decent-looking pattern on the walls, and can put this thing together with correct ring end gaps it will run forever if you don't abuse it. As I mentioned earlier, if you beat on this kind of rebuild you're asking for trouble, but if you just want a reliable, leak-free runner the there's nothing wrong with doing it this way.
Bottom line here, the GM line assemblers weren't rocket scientists, and you don't need to be either. Lord knows I'm not!
Gotta go....more to come
This is his first engine, and putting one together correctly is hard enough when you've never seen it done (meaning never did it with your own hands on your own motor) first.
But I agree that putting a motor together on a top ramen budget should be required learning for anyone who calls themselves a hotrodder. I've emery clothed bearings, cranks, cams, used a paper bag for a head gasket, even touched up valves with a file and a drill motor - but I'm glad I didn't start there.... my first motor was a disaster because the machine shop messed up - so they fixed it (without much whining either, surprisingly)....
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Confused!Hey I was looking under my car tonight to see what the kind of shape the floor pans are actually in...Ugh! They look and feel like fiberglass or plastic...
Is that right? I saw a couple of threads and others looked like steel... What say you?
Last edited by FatCat; Dec 5, 2012 at 08:41 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
my dad has a friend who used to go dumpster diving at Lions drag strip for everyone's used bearings. So I totally hear what you're saying, but think your advice is premature.
This is his first engine, and putting one together correctly is hard enough when you've never seen it done (meaning never did it with your own hands on your own motor) first.
But I agree that putting a motor together on a top ramen budget should be required learning for anyone who calls themselves a hotrodder. I've emery clothed bearings, cranks, cams, used a paper bag for a head gasket, even touched up valves with a file and a drill motor - but I'm glad I didn't start there.... my first motor was a disaster because the machine shop messed up - so they fixed it (without much whining either, surprisingly)....
This is his first engine, and putting one together correctly is hard enough when you've never seen it done (meaning never did it with your own hands on your own motor) first.
But I agree that putting a motor together on a top ramen budget should be required learning for anyone who calls themselves a hotrodder. I've emery clothed bearings, cranks, cams, used a paper bag for a head gasket, even touched up valves with a file and a drill motor - but I'm glad I didn't start there.... my first motor was a disaster because the machine shop messed up - so they fixed it (without much whining either, surprisingly)....
I must admit that all these years have taught me a little about what I could and couldn't get away with (Paper Bag head gaskets???WTF????), and Fatcat, if you're not comfortable with my admonitions by all means RUN THE OTHER WAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!
If, on the other hand, you are reasonably confident that you can do this, I am quite confident that we can communicate to you the necessary steps to walk you through this thing successfully...I say be brave, grasshopper...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
SBG, I actually broke down and learned my time-honored craft from a shadetree friend after I suffered through a disaster at the hands of a rather unscrupulous engine 'rebuilder', and at the time I had zero experience doing this kind of thing. I did reason, however, that since I was in the process of building my race car that maybe rebuilding the motor in my truck would be a good place to start learning.
I must admit that all these years have taught me a little about what I could and couldn't get away with (Paper Bag head gaskets???WTF????), and Fatcat, if you're not comfortable with my admonitions by all means RUN THE OTHER WAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!
If, on the other hand, you are reasonably confident that you can do this, I am quite confident that we can communicate to you the necessary steps to walk you through this thing successfully...I say be brave, grasshopper...
I must admit that all these years have taught me a little about what I could and couldn't get away with (Paper Bag head gaskets???WTF????), and Fatcat, if you're not comfortable with my admonitions by all means RUN THE OTHER WAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!
If, on the other hand, you are reasonably confident that you can do this, I am quite confident that we can communicate to you the necessary steps to walk you through this thing successfully...I say be brave, grasshopper...
Hey Birdsmith! I may be too confident!
I really have learned a ton from you guys and I am going to call the machinest tomorrow and see if he started cleaning etc. I told him to today so if he has I am going to just have him stop at a point and pick it up. I only gave him $150 budget to start with to clean the block, hone and polish. The good thing is at least I know his work from the shop I work at.Hey did you see the fiberglass floorboard issue I have going on too???
Man this has me stressed out!
