The relationship from the damper to the timing pointer can only be checked by making sure the #1 piston is at TDC. An easy way to do it with the head off and without fancy measuring tools is to find something to bolt to the block surface that will stop the piston just before it gets to the top(bolt a box end wrench to the block so it will stop the piston may work). then turn the engine till the piston touches the stop, then put a mark on pointer where the balancer aligns. Turn the crankshaft back the other way almost a complete turn till the piston comes up to the home made stop again and put a mark on the pointer where the balancer mark is again. The half way point between these two marks is actual TDC.

 

Actually, I think I am missing something here. When advance is ground into a cam, it is ground into the cam. That means when you line up the dots, the cam is in a position as if you installed it advanced, but the dots are still lined up, because instead of installing the cam and gear advanced, the cam lobes themselves are advanced. I hope I'm not confusing you, it can be a little difficult to wrap your head around at first.

Are you using a timing set that can be installed advanced or retarded? When installed correctly, I think the bottom gear's dot should be straight up when the #1 piston is at TDC. Then you install the cam gear with it's dot facing down. If you have a timing set where the bottom gear has 3 keyways, like this,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...make/chevrolet

you may have installed the bottom gear incorrectly. Or, your shiny chrome aftermarket timing chain cover may just not have a very accurate timing tab. As my Grandpappy from Maine used to say, "Hard sayin', not knowin'."

I'd say, right now, your job is to get your #1 piston at TDC, and then let us know where your camshaft dots are. That will tell the tale. Good luck, and make sure it's right before you start buttoning things up!


Scott

 

I would like to say again that because the damper connects directly to the crankshaft that the top dead center cannot be altered by whether the timing dots are aligned or if the cam is even installed in the engine. Lets stop confusing this issue. TDC has nothing to do with the cam, he has the dots aligned which is good. All that remains is to ensure the 0 on the pointer aligns with the mark on the damper at TDC.

 

I think a bit more of a big deal is being made of this than needs be.
The whole reason that I brought up the TDC issue in the first place was because of the chrome timing cover with its sproingy-boingy timing tab which is notorious for bending and providing inaccurate timing indications. It is therefore very important to verify crank TDC beforehand, THEN get the timing mark on the balancer correctly aligned with that on the flexi-tab by bending or aligning the timing tab. That is all...

 

It is not always neccessary but at this point I would degree the cam in since you have an issue.

 

Wow! Can of worms here! Ok, I can verify the timing marks are aligned correctly according to my Vizard book. There is only 1 key slot on the timing set. The tab on the timing cover actually came off of my old timing cover and is bolted on. Maybe I should just replace the pointer? It will not bend enough to align at TDC. Thoughts?

 

Before I went all goofy on the timing cover/pointer, I'd find exactly where #1 is at TDC. Piston stop as '75 pointed out.
AFTER that figure out where to go next. Until the TDC point is nailed down and is a hard cold fact, you're juggling snowballs in the summer.

 

I have found TDC.

 

did the light shine on you like it did on John Belushi and Dan Ackroyd in "The Blues Brothers"???

 

Hahaha! You would think!

 

In one of the Star Trek movies there is a point where Captain Kirk is being educated by Spock about achieving "Kohlinar", a state wherin one becomes absolutely devoid of all emotion. TDC is like that...

BTW Fatcat, are you now able to align 0 on your timing tab with the timing mark on your balancer?

 

Hahaha! You guys helped me get all the emotion out a coiple weeks ago! No I am 3* advanced at TDC on the tab.

 

Tonight I measured the heighth from the top of the piston to top of the block plate the number is .057. Can you guys help me understand what this information provides as far as combustion chamber size and cc's on heads, quench etc? Forgive me if I am not using correct terminology. Hahaha
My boss gave me a gauge with what I would call a small plunger and dial to measure with.

 

That number will help you determine what your compression ratio will be, which is calculated by comparing the volume of the cylinder with the piston at bottom dead center ('BDC') vs. top dead center (you guessed it...'TDC'). Now you need to know what the compressed thickness of your head gasket will be in addition to the combustion chamber volume of your cylinder head.

If you are using a 64cc head, that is 3.921 cubic inches. If the compressed thickness of your gasket is, say, .025" and the diameter is 4.045", that is .3176943 cubic inches. If your piston top is .057" "down in the hole" at TDC and your bore diameter is 4.030" THAT is .72165 cubic inches. Your total combustion chamber volume (without the valve relief volume figured in) at TDC would then be the sum of all those things OR 4.9603 cubic inches.

To figure out what your compression ratio will be, you then need to calculate cylinder diameter (4.030") x pi (3.1416") x stroke (3.48" for a 350 Chevy), which works out to 44.059 cubic inches. Divide the big number by the little number to get your compression ratio, which in this case would be 8.88:1, not a bad number if you're looking to use low-octane gas, but if you're looking to make horsepower you realistically want to be somewhere north of 9.25:1.

I think I mentioned in an earlier post that it's always best to 'mock up' one cylinder if at all possible to verify what these numbers are really going to be. That's a lot easier when you have 'floating' piston pins, but it looks like in your case you'll be in the neighborhood of where you want to be, compression-wise...

 

So, how do you mock up 1 cylinder? Would a thicker head gasket then increase the compression? I am going to have to really study these formulas to understand them. Lol never been great with math! Hahaha

 

omg! all I wanna know is, when is it gonna fire up?!(is it gonna fire up?! lol)

 

Dial indicator is the tool you have
.057 is way down in the hole. Add .015 gasket your at .073 quench which sucks. To short of compression height is common issue with aftermarket cheap pistons.

 

Ha! Ok if that is the problem, what is the fix and how does the price of the piston cause this problem? Heck, I even upgraded from what was int he kit.

 

Patience my brother patience!

 

As mentioned, you mock up a cylinder by putting the crank in the block and attaching 1 piston+rod to it, then taking your measurements prior to assembling the whole shebang. Again, this is relatively easy with 'floating' piston pins, not so much with the pressed-on variety. At any rate, you've got what you've got.

Where are you taking your measurement from? Ideally it should be taken as close to the piston pin axis as possible (front or back vs. top or bottom) so the piston can't deflect down into the bore and give an inaccurate measurement.

While .057 is a lot, this motor will be fine if you just want a cruiser...