Borgeson Install
The ORIGINAL and bestest
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 10,009
Likes: 240
From: Toronto Ontario
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Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 22
From: Oxford CT
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Valdosta Georgia
Finally got to take my new steering box out for a test drive today. LOVED THE DIFFERENCE!!!
Four wheel alignment and freshly balanced tires don't hurt a bit either. New steering box gave me a much better feel in the wheel.
Four wheel alignment and freshly balanced tires don't hurt a bit either. New steering box gave me a much better feel in the wheel.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 22
From: Oxford CT
Was there any problems getting the 3-4 deg's pos caster that they recommend on the alignment?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 105
Likes: 12
From: Rockford, IL
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 33
From: Lokeren, Belgium
I'm nearly done with the install, just a few things left.
How much torque do you guys used on the pinch clamp for the drag link adapter? Should the clamp be completely closed? It feels like that would snap of the bolt
The pinch bolt for the tie rod tubes are grade 5. Either they bend, 3 snapped off way before I reached the 22ft/lbs sigh...
Thanks
Nick
How much torque do you guys used on the pinch clamp for the drag link adapter? Should the clamp be completely closed? It feels like that would snap of the bolt
The pinch bolt for the tie rod tubes are grade 5. Either they bend, 3 snapped off way before I reached the 22ft/lbs sigh...
Thanks
Nick
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 956
Likes: 86
From: McDonough Georgia
I'm nearly done with the install, just a few things left.
How much torque do you guys used on the pinch clamp for the drag link adapter? Should the clamp be completely closed? It feels like that would snap of the bolt
The pinch bolt for the tie rod tubes are grade 5. Either they bend, 3 snapped off way before I reached the 22ft/lbs sigh...
Thanks
Nick
How much torque do you guys used on the pinch clamp for the drag link adapter? Should the clamp be completely closed? It feels like that would snap of the bolt
The pinch bolt for the tie rod tubes are grade 5. Either they bend, 3 snapped off way before I reached the 22ft/lbs sigh...
Thanks
Nick
The clamp does not close all the way. If memory serves me, that bolt goes through a notch in the drag link, and slides onto splines.
I simply got everything lined up, then tightened it until the ears started to fold over.
I am totally secure that it will never come off.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
Is there anyone near my area in CA who'd be willing to let me drive the car around a bit with the Borgeson box?
I am thinking this and trailing arms would be good presents for the 78 in 2014...
I am thinking this and trailing arms would be good presents for the 78 in 2014...
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 22
From: Oxford CT
You can check the picture of mine a few pages back.
The clamp does not close all the way. If memory serves me, that bolt goes through a notch in the drag link, and slides onto splines.
I simply got everything lined up, then tightened it until the ears started to fold over.
I am totally secure that it will never come off.
The clamp does not close all the way. If memory serves me, that bolt goes through a notch in the drag link, and slides onto splines.
I simply got everything lined up, then tightened it until the ears started to fold over.
I am totally secure that it will never come off.
What is the torque needed for the Pittman arm to the steering box?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 956
Likes: 86
From: McDonough Georgia
You can use a pickle fork on the ball joint, but a special puller is recommended for the pitman arm on the steering box. Mine popped off easily with a large pickle fork.
Torque for the ball joints is 45lbs, the pitman to steering box is recommended 140.
The valve comes off the arm pretty easily. It is simply pushed on and bolted with the thru bolt. You can remove that bolt and tap it off with a brass or lead hammer.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 57
From: Mundelein Illinois
I went with this mod because I was on HRPT 3,000 mile trip and had to change the steering valve and hoses before trip. I purchased all new not rebuilt. Half way through the trip the valve fails, fluid all over, just a mess. Limp car back home without power steering and hoping pump does not run out of fluid and lock up, since I have a serpentine belt on car.
Something is always leaking with the steering system. Borgensen is pretty simple and steering system is very reliable.
It's like have points in your distributor and going to electronic ignition. A no brainer!
Something is always leaking with the steering system. Borgensen is pretty simple and steering system is very reliable.
It's like have points in your distributor and going to electronic ignition. A no brainer!
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 109
Likes: 13
From: Johnson City TN
My borgeson conversion is over and was ultimately successful. I love the quicker steering and all of the slop from my old steering box (which was desperately in need of a rebuild) is gone. It was also fun to do. I still need a front-end alignment and some better weather to drive in, but I would definitely do the conversion again. I thought I would share some notes from my experience.
I have an early 69 big block with headers, manual brakes, and stock power steering.
A very tight fit with these headers, but it does fit. Final Results:
I have an early 69 big block with headers, manual brakes, and stock power steering.
- Ultimately ended up having to remove the header. I managed to get the old box out with the header still in, but there was no way the new box would fit. Even the old box was rubbing up against the header as you can see in the photo.
I did have to dimple the header a little, but that was fairly easy to do with a ball peen hammer. Of course pulling the header isn't as simple as just taking out the bolts. I had to remove the spark plugs and clutch cross-shaft and the header gasket was in rough shape so I had to replace it. - Brake lines. The proportioning valve and some of the brake lines needed to be pushed back about 1/4" in order for the new box to fit. I undid a couple of the line clamps and then gently pushed the lines back just enough for the new box to fit. However it's still a very tight fit and doesn't give enough room to tilt the new box back when fitting it into the steering column. I guess at some point bending new lines would be the way to go, but I didn't want to add too much to this project. You can see how close the lines are in this pic:
- Had to take the steering column loose and pull it inside the dash about 5 inches in order to fit the new rag joint. Overall I ended up pulling the steering column in and out at least 4 times trying to measure correctly for collapsing the column and lining up the rag joint to the column splines.
- I tried my best to align the new box straight with the steering wheel, but I guess the imprecise measuring with the box loosely attached to the frame and pitman arm and with the steering column partially in the dash wasn't good enough. After everything was tightened up for the final time I ended up being about 15 - 20 degrees off! Rather than pulling the steering column back out to give enough room to attempt to remove the rag joint (which I really had to bang in to begin with) and move it to a different spline, I just pulled the steering wheel hub and rotated it enough to line up straight.
- power steering lines - Some previous posts mentioning that you really have to tighten down on the of the fittings weren't kidding. I had to really tighten down the high pressure line coming from the pump and the return line coming from the box.
A very tight fit with these headers, but it does fit. Final Results:
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 11,096
Likes: 990
From: Sierra Foothills CA
danc24,
Thanks for the info. I also have an early '69 w/ a 427.
1. What kind of headers do you have, and what's the primary tube diameter?
2. Is the smoothly worn part of the stock steering box column (below the square shaped portion on top) the part that was hitting the headers?
3. Were you able to tell how much additional clearance you needed with the Borgeson vs. the stock box?
I'm running Hedman headers, which have 2" primary tubes. Sighting straight down the side of the box I have what looks to be about 3/16" of clearance to the nearest part of the header. I've been waiting to see how the Borgeson fits on a big block car. A little more info could really help me decide if I should try to squeeze one in. Thanks.
Thanks for the info. I also have an early '69 w/ a 427.
1. What kind of headers do you have, and what's the primary tube diameter?
2. Is the smoothly worn part of the stock steering box column (below the square shaped portion on top) the part that was hitting the headers?
3. Were you able to tell how much additional clearance you needed with the Borgeson vs. the stock box?
I'm running Hedman headers, which have 2" primary tubes. Sighting straight down the side of the box I have what looks to be about 3/16" of clearance to the nearest part of the header. I've been waiting to see how the Borgeson fits on a big block car. A little more info could really help me decide if I should try to squeeze one in. Thanks.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 109
Likes: 13
From: Johnson City TN
danc24,
Thanks for the info. I also have an early '69 w/ a 427.
1. What kind of headers do you have, and what's the primary tube diameter?
2. Is the smoothly worn part of the stock steering box column (below the square shaped portion on top) the part that was hitting the headers?
3. Were you able to tell how much additional clearance you needed with the Borgeson vs. the stock box?
Thanks for the info. I also have an early '69 w/ a 427.
1. What kind of headers do you have, and what's the primary tube diameter?
2. Is the smoothly worn part of the stock steering box column (below the square shaped portion on top) the part that was hitting the headers?
3. Were you able to tell how much additional clearance you needed with the Borgeson vs. the stock box?
2. Not just the smoothly worn part, but the upper right corner of the square shaped portion in the pic which is reddish in color.
3. Not exactly, but guessing I dimpled the header tube between 1/8" and 1/4".
Even after dimpling, clearance is very tight with these headers. There is approximately a 1/16" gap between the box and the header at about the same spot the original box was touching.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 11,096
Likes: 990
From: Sierra Foothills CA
1. Headers were installed by a PO and I can't find any identifying markings. Primary tube diameter is 2 1/4"
2. Not just the smoothly worn part, but the upper right corner of the square shaped portion in the pic which is reddish in color.
3. Not exactly, but guessing I dimpled the header tube between 1/8" and 1/4".
Even after dimpling, clearance is very tight with these headers. There is approximately a 1/16" gap between the box and the header at about the same spot the original box was touching.
2. Not just the smoothly worn part, but the upper right corner of the square shaped portion in the pic which is reddish in color.
3. Not exactly, but guessing I dimpled the header tube between 1/8" and 1/4".
Even after dimpling, clearance is very tight with these headers. There is approximately a 1/16" gap between the box and the header at about the same spot the original box was touching.
It looks like I'm right about at the edge for having enough clearance. If I'm too tight, I may be able to grind just enough of the box itself to keep from dimpling the headers. I've really wanted to do this for a couple of years. Very tempting to take a shot.Your headers are a mystery to me. Hooker makes some w/ 2 1/8" tubes for our car. I don't know if they used to make 2 1/4" tubes. In any case, glad for you that you were able to get the Borgeson kit in.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
danc24,
Thanks for the info. I also have an early '69 w/ a 427.
1. What kind of headers do you have, and what's the primary tube diameter?
2. Is the smoothly worn part of the stock steering box column (below the square shaped portion on top) the part that was hitting the headers?
3. Were you able to tell how much additional clearance you needed with the Borgeson vs. the stock box?
I'm running Hedman headers, which have 2" primary tubes. Sighting straight down the side of the box I have what looks to be about 3/16" of clearance to the nearest part of the header. I've been waiting to see how the Borgeson fits on a big block car. A little more info could really help me decide if I should try to squeeze one in. Thanks.
Thanks for the info. I also have an early '69 w/ a 427.
1. What kind of headers do you have, and what's the primary tube diameter?
2. Is the smoothly worn part of the stock steering box column (below the square shaped portion on top) the part that was hitting the headers?
3. Were you able to tell how much additional clearance you needed with the Borgeson vs. the stock box?
I'm running Hedman headers, which have 2" primary tubes. Sighting straight down the side of the box I have what looks to be about 3/16" of clearance to the nearest part of the header. I've been waiting to see how the Borgeson fits on a big block car. A little more info could really help me decide if I should try to squeeze one in. Thanks.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 11,096
Likes: 990
From: Sierra Foothills CA
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
These are for a small block app, but you probably get the idea:
