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I'm telling ya from experience it can run 180 out and rev to 2500 rpms. You can dial in your timing with your dizzy. Shouldn't have to take timing cover back off. You asked a question about a Shift kit. I have a turbo 400 with a B&M kit, I set it up for street and strip. Works great and not too obnoxious . Easy to install just follow the directions. Came with a cork gasket, thru that in the trash and went with a felpro rubber gasket
When you did the assembly, do you remember how you aligned the timing marks on the cam and crank gears.
Clocked at 6:00 and 12:00 or both at 12:00?
Camshaft manufactures use one or the other in the assembly instructions.
If it's not set correctly your timing could be 180 degrees off.
This is common and easy to fix.
Another way the timing could be off 180 degrees is the distributor shaft is simply installed 180 degrees off into the oil pump shaft and the rotor is not in the proper position.
The engine will backfire through the carb, won't idle and may run at high rpm's.
Sound familiar?
Last edited by OldCarBum; Jun 19, 2019 at 11:15 AM.
Easy way to check & fix distrib clocking, for either correct or 180 degreees off: Put a paper plug in #1 spark plug hole. Turn motor over slowly and when it blows out you are on the compression stroke. Go a little more to the timing mark and you are at top dead center. Remove distrib cap and it should be pointing at #1 plug wire. If not just move all the plug wires. But keep them in firing order. Should take only 5 minutes.
Easy way to check & fix distrib clocking, for either correct or 180 degreees off: Put a paper plug in #1 spark plug hole. Turn motor over slowly and when it blows out you are on the compression stroke. Go a little more to the timing mark and you are at top dead center. Remove distrib cap and it should be pointing at #1 plug wire. If not just move all the plug wires. But keep them in firing order. Should take only 5 minutes.
When you did the assembly, do you remember how you aligned the timing marks on the cam and crank gears.
Clocked at 6:00 and 12:00 or both at 12:00?
Camshaft manufactures use one or the other in the assembly instructions.
If it's not set correctly your timing could be 180 degrees off.
This is common and easy to fix.
Another way the timing could be off 180 degrees is the distributor shaft is simply installed 180 degrees off into the oil pump shaft and the rotor is not in the proper position.
The engine will backfire through the carb, won't idle and may run at high rpm's.
Sound familiar?
So, I can tell you that I aligned the crank at 12:00 and the cam at 6:00, but really, what does it matter?
When I put the cam in, the heads weren't on the block yet, so valve timing .
I didn't reference the dots on the crank and cam when setting up the distributor, so if I set the distributor up based on watching the intake valve close, or blowing my finger/piece of paper out of the spark plug hole, it shouldn't matter, should it? My reference of the intake valve or pressure from the spark plug is what really indicates #1 compression stroke. By the time I was inserting the distributor, I had no way to look at the dots on the crank and cam.
The #1 piston will be at TDC 2x for every rotation of the cam, so does it really matter if it is 12:00/12:00 or 12:00/6:00?
Is my reasoning not incorrect?
Last edited by mongoose87; Jun 19, 2019 at 02:15 PM.
So I can tell you that I aligned the crank at 12:00 and the cam at 6:00, but really, what does it matter?
When I put the cam in, the heads weren't on the block yet, or the lifters or the pushrods.
If I set the distributor up based on the intake valve closing, or blowing my finger or piece of paper out of the spark plug hole, it should matter, should it?
Am I crazy in my thinking?
when you put them in this way this is tdc on #6 cyl. The engine needs to be rotated till both dots are in the 12 o clock postion for #1 to be tdc,then you put the heads and intake on and install the dist. If you set #1 to be wherever the rotor is pointing when it blows your finger off it will run just annoys the OCD, perfectionists, and anyone else that works on it that its not where GM intended it to be. Mark #1 plug wire on the dist to make it easy to find.
when you put them in this way this is tdc on #6 cyl. The engine needs to be rotated till both dots are in the 12 o clock postion for #1 to be tdc,then you put the heads and intake on and install the dist. If you set #1 to be wherever the rotor is pointing when it blows your finger off it will run just annoys the OCD, perfectionists, and anyone else that works on it that its not where GM intended it to be. Mark #1 plug wire on the dist to make it easy to find.
I don't want any confusion in the future if I forget about this point and work on the engine, so this is a valid point....but I'm still confused.
If I installed the cam 12:00/6:00, and thus making the current position at #6 TDC on compression stroke (and #1 TDC, just NOT on the compression stroke), if I rotate the CRANK another 360 degrees, it should be at #1 TDC compression stroke with the dots aligned 12:00/12:00, as the ol' General intended it, correct?
If the engine is 180 degrees out, would this explain #3 and # 6 not firing?
My apologies for these basic questions; I just need to know If I need to redo this part and get some more timing cover seals. (i really hope not)
Last edited by mongoose87; Jun 19, 2019 at 02:47 PM.
When you did the assembly, do you remember how you aligned the timing marks on the cam and crank gears.
Clocked at 6:00 and 12:00 or both at 12:00?
Camshaft manufactures use one or the other in the assembly instructions.
If it's not set correctly your timing could be 180 degrees off.
This is common and easy to fix.
Another way the timing could be off 180 degrees is the distributor shaft is simply installed 180 degrees off into the oil pump shaft and the rotor is not in the proper position.
The engine will backfire through the carb, won't idle and may run at high rpm's.
Sound familiar?
This sounds like what is going on with the engine, but I just can't figure out how this could have happened if I inserted the distributor based on the intake valve closing, or pressure from spark plug hole.
None the less, I'll remove the dizzy and find #1 TDC on compression stroke again, and arrange the wires as the ol' General intended. Maybe the #3 and #6 wires will be better situated then.
To be honest, I never rechecked TDC with the piston stop tool, apart from the first time I installed the harmonic balancer. I still need to do that; it is just a bit more tricky with the headers in the way and the engine in the car.
Last edited by mongoose87; Jun 19, 2019 at 02:45 PM.
I don't want any confusion in the future if I forget about this point and work on the engine, so this is a valid point....but I'm still confused.
If I installed the cam 12:00/6:00, and thus making the current position at #6 TDC on compression stroke (and #1 TDC, just NOT on the compression stroke), if I rotate the CRANK another 360 degrees, it should be at #1 TDC compression stroke with the dots aligned 12:00/12:00, as the ol' General intended it, correct?
If the engine is 180 degrees out, would this explain #3 and # 6 not firing?
My apologies for these basic questions; I just need to know If I need to redo this part and get some more timing cover seals. (i really hope not)
Sounds correct, someone please confirm.
Not sure never tried to run one with it 180* out, anyone else?
every other crank rev the cam is 180 different. They rotate at 2:1, crank:cam, Same for dist ... rotates at 2:1 carnk:dist. but dist & cam rotate at 1:1
Not sure never tried to run one with it 180* out, anyone else?
Hate to admit it, but yes - Replace a cam on a 305 boat motor and had it 180 out. It ran but like crap - Took me forever to figure it out, when i did figure what went wrong it ran like a champ.
If ... If it's 180 out ... it's because the Dist 180 out from cam ... as they rotate at 1:1 relationship.
So... if it's 180 out ... the ignition timing is 180 out from valve timing.
This is my understanding as well.
Under this premise, it shouldn't even be possible to be 180 degrees out if you haven't inserted the distributor yet, as long as you lined up the dots either 12:00/12:00 or 12:00/6:00.
Now if the dots were not lined up at all, say 12:00/9:00, then you could have a catastrophe, and have pistons crashing into the valves.
Hate to admit it, but yes - Replace a cam on a 305 boat motor and had it 180 out. It ran but like crap - Took me forever to figure it out, when i did figure what went wrong it ran like a champ.
So what did you do to fix the problem?
Did you just check for #1 TDC on compression stroke and reclock the distributor?
OR
Did you actually take the timing cover off and redo the crank/cam timing?
If so, this would require you to remove the rockers, pushrods, and lifters, so how did you know if it is TDC #1 compression stroke or #6 compression stroke when you redid the crank/cam timing?
So what did you do to fix the problem?
Did you just check for #1 TDC on compression stroke and reclock the distributor?
OR
Did you actually take the timing cover off and redo the crank/cam timing?
If so, this would require you to remove the rockers, pushrods, and lifters, so how did you know if it is TDC #1 compression stroke or #6 compression stroke when you redid the crank/cam timing?
you dont need to remove the timing cover just change the dist. position 180 degrees.
You don't have to remove the timing cover. You don't even have to remove the distributor to check it. Find TDC and then see where the rotor under the cap is pointing.Make sure that is #1 wire. That's it. You only have to move the wires.
Now later if you made the #1 distributor tower and it's all the way in the back of the motor, and you want to move it to the front, Just pull the distributor and rotate it exactly 180 degrees until the rotor points to the left front. It will run fine the other way, but left front #1 is more normal, and your wires may fit better. Isn't #1 on the distrib usually in this position below?
Last edited by leigh1322; Jun 19, 2019 at 04:40 PM.
As Kacyc3 Said - Have someone turn the car over with you finger over No 1 hole - when you feel the pop your coming up to TDC - Stop and look where the rotor is pointing, should be getting ready to fire NO 1 plug. Now bump starter again and watch it go around again back to rotor pointing at NO 1 . 360 DEG - If its not pointing to NO 1 plug wire - either change your wire rotation OR you have to loosen and pull the dist up and rotate so it fires on NO 1 in the stock location so your plug wires reach. Make sure you lock into the oil pump shaft.
hi I don't get involved much but fix it correct if timing is wrong on crank and cam pulled that dam timing cover and fix it correctly reason is you will forget what you did then set distributor in correct spot don't rig it
