Ok...yesterday I started a thread my C5 died! Today it came back from the other world. I want to share the particulars so others may solve similar problems in the future...I will also post on Bill Curlees thread and see if he can analyze this a little further...probably comes down to grounds in the end.

I have a 2000 vert with 112K miles...it is a daily driver and runs real well...having a few choice conservative mods...it pulls very strong. It is a 6 speed. The body looks really good from 10 feet, very shiny and red...lots of people think its a new car...I have to admit GM paint was REALLY good in this era because I don't wax often and the car is not
garaged...I rarely wash it because when it rains most of the dirt miraculously slides off of the finish.

Anyhow...I was driving normally yesterday when the car started to shudder and then promptly stalled. I tried to restart...but the car idled really rough and would not take any pedal....checked the battery and fuses and couldn't find anything wrong...only code was low idle.

I gave up and had it towed home. When I tried to lock the car with the fob...the horn alarm would start beeping so I left it unlocked. Came out this morning...same thing. I decided to check to see if the front top
locks were all the way closed...which might have caused this behavior...they were fine. For some reason I decided to pop the tonneau cover lock button to release it....Voila!...my key fob locked the car without setting off the alarm...what the hey?

So I felt lucky and decide to try and start it...worked like a charm...the car is running better than ever. Drove quite a bit today and no issues.

Now how do we analyze this...so I can get to the root of the problem...one thing is my passengers side window leaks somewhere n ear the bottom of the top and I do get quite a bit of water behind the drivers seat...maybe some wire is getting wet...maybe its one of the grounds.....


Lets put our heads together on this one...to save me and others future aggravation.











1

 

You should have IMMEDIATELY read your DTC when it died. That really the only way we are going to be able to properly point you in the right area.

Read the DTCs now. Write them down. Clear them ALL and when the car acts up, without changing anything, clear any messages and read the DTCs.

READING YOUR Engine Diagnostic Codes (DTCs)
The Diagnostic Display Mode is entered with the following procedure:
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the RESET button to turn off any warning messages. (i.e. door open, trunk open etc…)
3) Press and hold OPTIONS
4) While holding OPTIONS, press FUEL four times within a 10-second period.

Initially, on-board diagnostics go into an Automatic Mode which shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS - RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will be displayed for each. ( i.e. PCM = 4 codes)
If none are present in a given module, you will see No More Codes on the display.
There are two kinds of diagnostic codes, Current and History designated with a letter suffix, C or ;H. A current code indicates a malfunction is present in the module displaying data. A history code indicates a problem existed sometime in the last 40 or 50 ignition cycles. When not accompanied by a current code of the same number, it's potential evidence of a previous problem, now resolved, that was not removed by clearing the codes.
More likely it's an indication of an intermittent malfunction.
Intermittent codes are the most challenging of the diagnostics. An intermittent code may have happened once, may have happened more than once but is inconsistent or may be happening on a regular basis but not at the time the codes are displayed. History codes can also be caused by a current malfunction in a system that is not operating at the time codes are displayed. An example is the rear window defogger which doesn't operate until the Body Control Module detects engine rpm. For history codes set by a module that does not operate with the key on and engine off, a special diagnostic tool called a Scan Tester is necessary to properly diagnose the malfunction.
Once the system has displayed all modules, it goes into the manual mode which allows selection of each module using combinations of Driver Information Center buttons. Manual mode can also be entered during the automatic sequence by pressing any button except E/M. Once the display shows Manual Diagnostics, select a module by pressing the OPTIONS button to go forward or the TRIP button to go back. Once a module is selected, a code is displayed, and if more than one are present;
press GAGES to go forward or FUEL to go back.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press E/M. If you want to erase codes in a given module, press RESET
To reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold RESET until it displays NO CODES Press OPTIONS to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
NOTE!! Only reset the codes IF you want to - it is NOT necessary to do this. Clearing a code does not repair a problem. You are simply erasing the evidence of it in the module's memory. If you clear the code/s, and extinguish the Check Engine Light, your emissions status ready will NOT allow you to pass an emissions test until you have completed the required driving cycles.
Once you have the codes, the next question is: What to do with the information?
First, consult the factory service manual. Any serious C5 Do-It-Yourself owner should invest in the Corvette Service Manual of the appropriate model year. The Service Manual is really a requirement if you want to understand and work on your C5.

Here is very good site of DTC definitions:


http://www.gearchatter.com


Make sure to include the H or C suffix!!

 

Did check it Bill...only code was 0506 low idle

 

Its difficult to believe that if you have a LOW IDLE DTC, that there are not any other DTCs as a result of what caused the engine to stumble.

A vacuum leak will usually cause a lean condition.

Some of the things that I would look at would be the MAF and or Crank Sensor.

There is a RUB point on the engine wire harness. Follow the driver side harness to the back of the engine. Where it bends around the bracket at the back of the fuel rail, see of there are any bare damaged wires in the harness.

Bill

 

Thanks Bill...just pulled a code....rfa 2115...but I think that is due to one tire sensor being bad.

 

DTC C2115 Left Rear TPM Sensor Malfunction




Circuit Description
When the TPM sensors detect a vehicle speed of 16-24 km/h (10-15 mph), the TPM sensors will enter a powered up stage and begin to transmit a unique identification code and tire pressure information from 0-427 kPa (0-62 psi) to the receiver. The receiver waits for the first sensor to transmit information. When the first sensor transmits its information 15 times, the receiver checks whether all sensors have sent their information. If one or more sensors do not transmit information, the receiver will set the appropriate DTCs for the TPM sensor that did not transmit. When the vehicle has been stationary for more than 1 minute, the sensor will enter a power down or sleep mode and will stop transmitting tire pressure information.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
The vehicle completes a diagnostic cycle (driving for about 20 minutes at speeds over 24 km/h [15 mph]) and the left rear TPM sensor has not transmitted tire pressure information.
The receiver has received at least one TPM sensor transmit tire pressure information 15 times and no tire pressure information was received from the left rear TPM sensor.
Action Taken When the DTC Sets
Stores a DTC C2115 in the receiver memory
Sends a message to the IPC to display the SERVICE TIRE WARN SYS message
The IPC will default to display the left rear tire pressure as XXX kPa (XX psi).
Conditions for Clearing the DTC
The left rear TPM sensor transmits tire pressure information to the receiver before a diagnostic cycle is completed.
A history DTC will clear after 50 consecutive ignition cycles if the condition for the malfunction is no longer present.
Use the IPC clearing DTCs feature.
Use a scan tool.
Diagnostic Aids
The IPC will default to display the left rear tire pressure as XXX kPa (XX psi) if the receiver is unable to receive or send tire pressure data.
If there is an open in the serial data line to the receiver, the IPC will display XXX kPa (XX psi) for all tire pressure values and the SERVICE TIRE WARN SYS message.
Clear the receiver diagnostic memory before road testing the vehicle whenever a TPM sensor is replaced in order to avoid reading the original DTC stored in the memory.
Take tire pressure measurements when the tires are cold in order to obtain the lowest readings.
Test Description
The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table:

This test checks if the IPC can enter the TIRE TRAINING mode. If the display is blank, or if the DIC buttons do not respond when pressed, the IPC must be diagnosable first.

This test determines if the TPM sensors can properly transmit their identification codes. (If the horn did not sound during the test, the receiver was unable to receive a TPM sensor identification code.)

This test determines if the TPM sensor replacement corrected the malfunction.

This test determines if programming the TPM sensors corrected the malfunction.

DTC C2115 -- Left Rear TPM Sensor Malfunction Step
Action
Value(s)
Yes
No

1
Were you sent here from the TPM Diagnostic System Check?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Tire Pressure Monitoring

2
Using the buttons on the DIC, enter the TIRE TRAINING mode. Refer to Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor Programming .

Can the programming be successfully accessed through the IPC?
--
Go to Step 3
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Instrument Cluster

3
Program all TPM sensors. Refer to Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor Programming .

Was the left rear TPM sensor programming successful?
--
Go to Step 6
Go to Step 4

4
Replace the left rear TPM sensor. Refer to Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor Programming .
Program all the TPM sensors. Refer to Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor Programming .
Is the replacement complete?
--
Go to Step 5
--

5
Clear the DTCs.
Road test the vehicle above 24 km/h (15 mph) for 20 minutes.
Does DTC C2115 reset?
--
Go to Step 7
System OK

6
Clear the DTCs.
Road test the vehicle above 24 km/h (15 mph) for 20 minutes.
Does DTC C2115 reset?
--
Go to Step 4
System OK

7
Replace the remote control door lock receiver. Refer to Tire Pressure Monitoring Receiver Replacement .
Program all TPM sensors. Refer to Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor Programming .
Program the RFA transmitters. Refer to Transmitter Programming/Synchronization in Keyless Entry.
Is the replacement complete?
--
Go to Step 8
--

8
Turn the ignition to OFF.
Install any components or connectors that were removed.
Clear all DTCs.
Are the repairs complete?
--
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Tire Pressure Monitoring
--



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 580429
2000 Chevrolet/Geo Corvette

 

OK Bill....the car died again today and I got another code BCM 2578....I again could not lock the car without the horn alarm going off...I popped the button on the tonneau release and re close it...all symptoms went away and the car runs normally again.

 

Hay Bill,, 4/7/14
Quick up date on the Ing. switch repair...............
Switch had only 2 pencil mark dots/marks.... very small .. Did the push pull test and only one female passed...
Before I re-bent the females I used an old feeler gauge ..about 1.5 inches long (tiny little sucker).. cut some small strips of 400 grit W/D paper and cleaned
out the females.. Lot of white & some black junk.
Then I did the (Bill C magic) and the push/ pull test. Continued until i got them tight. Cleaned the Bat terminals, removed and
replaced all fuses and relays,(replaced only a couple fuses w/new) both under the hood and the passenger floor panel.
No more low oil lite, no service steering column, and the A/C system is back to normal. Starts and run with out shutting off...
SO.... I lov my vette again... Rather puss my vette the ride in a Ford ..lol
I enjoyed talking with you also and look forward to crossing paths one day... I'm BUYING the cold BEER.

Again,,, thanks for all your help
Mike Venth

 

Mike

EXCELLENT WORK! Its difficult to get people to understand the importance of good tight electrical connections.

Just because a male and female pin fit together doesn't mean that the connection is proper and able to flow the correct current to support module operation.

Between crappy connections in the ignition switch and **** poor female pin design, its a wonder these cars run as good as they do.

Again, great job on cleaning and readjusting the female pins.

Bill

 

The DTC B2578 is a Lighting DTC. Nothing to do with the engine or engine management.

Are you sure that you don't have the same issues / issues as " mike venth " Without the DTC evidence of something wrong, the PCM thinks it being shut down normally

I would start with an Ignition switch overhaul and check the female pins in the two connectors for that switch.

If that doesn't pan out, the crank sensor would be the next thing that has some of the same symptoms.

Bill



PS Here is the write up on your last DTC:

DTC B2578
Circuit Description
The BCM monitors the RF turn signal circuit in order to determine the status of the turn signal switch. If the BCM detects an oscillating voltage on the RH turn signal monitor circuit, the BCM interprets this as a RF turn signal ON request from the turn signal switch. The BCM will then de-energizetheRH DRL relay, which will disable the RF turn signal lamp (which is ON forthe DRL), this allows the RF turn signal to flash. If the BCM does not detectan oscillating voltage on the RH turn signal monitor circuit, the BCM interpretsthis as the RF turn signal being OFF. The BCM will then energize the RH DRLrelay and continue normal DRL operation. The BCM monitors the RH turn signalmonitor circuit and determines how long voltage is applied.If the voltageis applied for longer than expected, a malfunction is presentand a DTC willset.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
The BCM detects continuous battery positive voltage on the RH turn signal monitor circuit.
The condition must be present for longer than 5 seconds.
Action Taken When the DTC Sets
Stores a DTC B2578 in the BCM memory.

Conditions for Clearing the DTC
This DTC requires an ignition cycle in order to change from current to history.
The BCM no longer detects continuous battery positive voltage on the RH turn signal monitor circuit for longer than 5 seconds.
A history DTC will clear after 50 consecutive ignition cycles if the condition for the malfunction is no longer present.
Use the IPC clearing DTCs feature.
The BCM receives the Clear Code command from the scan tool.
Diagnostic Aids
The following conditions may cause an intermittent malfunction:
There is an intermittent short to battery positive voltage in the RH turn signal monitor circuit.
The turn signal switch or the hazard switch is internally shorted or is sticking.
The BCM needs to detect voltage oscillations on the RH turn signal monitor circuit in order to de-energize the RH DRL relay. If the BCM detectscontinuous voltage on the RH turn signal monitor circuit, the BCM interpretsthis as a short to battery positive voltage. The BCM will continue with normal DRL operation, and the RF turn signal will remain inoperative.
If the DTC is a history DTC, the problem may be intermittent. Perform the tests shown while moving related wiring and connectors. This canoften cause the malfunction to occur. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections in Wiring Systems.
Test Description
The number(s) below refer to the step number(s) on the diagnostic table.

Tests if a DTC B2583 is stored in the BCM. If both the RH and LH turn signal monitor DTCsare stored, test the hazard switch and related circuits for a short tovoltage.

Tests if the BCM is receiving oscillating voltage on the RH turn signal monitor circuit.If the test lamp is ON steady, the BCM will set a DTC B2578.

Tests if the BCM is receiving oscillating voltage on the RH turn signal monitor circuit.If the test lamp is ON steady, the BCM will set a DTC B2578.

Tests if the turn signal switch or related circuits are shorted to voltage.

Tests if the hazard switch or related circuits are shorted to voltage.

Tests if the instrument panel cluster turn signal indicator is shorted to voltage.

Tests if the body control module is shorted to voltage.

Step
Action
Yes
No

Schematic Reference: Headlights/Daytime Running Lights (DRL) Schematics

Connector End View Reference: Master Electrical Component List

1
Did you perform the Lighting System Diagnostic System Check?
Go to Step 2
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Lighting Systems

2
Install a scan tool.
Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
Select the BCM display DTC function on the scan tool.
Does the scan tool display DTC B2583?
Go to Step 10
Go to Step 3

3
Turn OFF the ignition.
Disconnect the RH DRL relay.
Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
Probe the RH turn signal monitor circuit at the RH DRL relay with a test lamp that is connected to a good ground. Refer to Power Distribution Schematics in Wiring Systems for electricalcenter circuit identification.
Turn ON the RH turn signals
Does the test lamp turn ON and OFF with the RH turn signals?
Go to Step 13
Go to Step 4

4
Does the test lamp remain illuminated?
Go to Step 5
Go to Turn Signal Lamps and/or Indicators Inoperative

5
Disconnect the turn signal switch.

Does the test lamp remain illuminated?
Go to Step 6
Go to Step 9

6
Disconnect the hazard switch.

Does the test lamp remain illuminated?
Go to Step 7
Go to Step 10

7
Disconnect the instrument panel cluster.

Does the test lamp remain illuminated?
Go to Step 8
Go to Step 11

8
Disconnect the body control module.

Does the test lamp remain illuminated?
Go to Step 12
Go to Step 14

9
Repair a short to battery positive voltage in the turn signal switch circuit. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you complete the repair?
Go to Step 15
--

10
Repair a short to battery positive voltage in the hazard switch circuit. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you complete the repair?
Go to Step 15
--

11
Repair a short to battery positive voltage in the instrument panel turn signal indicator circuit. Refer to Wiring Repairs in WiringSystems.

Did you complete the repair?
Go to Step 15
--

12
Repair a short to battery positive voltage in the turn signal monitor circuit. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you complete the repair?
Go to Step 15
--

13
Replace the RH DRL relay. Refer to Relay Replacement in Wiring Systems.

Did you complete the replacement?
Go to Step 15
--

14

Important
Perform the BCM reprogram procedure. Refer to Body Control Module (BCM) Programming/RPO Configuration in Body Control System.


Replace the BCM. Refer to Body Control Module Replacement in Body Control System.

Did you complete the replacement?
Go to Step 15
--

15
Use the scan tool in order to clear the DTCs.
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Setting the DTC as specified in the supporting text.
Does the DTC reset?
Go to Step 2
System OK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well...today the car wouldn't even start...finally got it running for a little bit after many tries, but the minute I depressed the clutch...it faltered and stalled. Horn alarm goes off when I try to lock it...no codes this time. I tried my tonneau trick...but this time it didn't work. I am going to try to access the ignition switch...there are not tuturials on removing it.

 

Hi Bill,

Took the switch out and did your service...thanks...it was easy and straightforward....car started right up....I took it around the block and it started stalling..got back in the driveway and waited 10 minutes...started up again..idleing normally...I let it idle for 10 minutes...it was fine. I stepped in and depressed the clutch...it immediately stalled and wouldn't restart. The codes I have now are rfa codes
1016....1096...1064. When I try to lock the car...the alarm goes off as before.

 

So some new codes have appeared regarding hvac.....0332...0337....0338 ...0361....0365...1160....1255...The car will idle forever...once you start driving is when the problem begins.

 

some of these codes indicate air temp sensor communications.....I have not assembled all the dash components...which includes the inside temp sensor...so this may be the cause of some of these

 

I cleared the codes....car idled like a champ for 20minutes...I revved it with little throttle blips....seemed fine...pushed in the clutch and put it in gear and it stalled right out

 

Do you get the PULL KEY WAIT 10 SECONDS Message????? Sounds like you are getting the column lock FUEL CUT OFF. If the column lock is faulted, GM reprogrammed the PCM to enter fuel cut off when the car moves 2 mph (some times less).

Some questions. Please answer:

Is your Steering Column Locked when you remove the key?

When you insert the key and turn the ignition to ON, does the steering column UNLOCK OR Do you hear the Column lock bolt retract and engage???

If you hear the bolt engage and the steering wheel does not lock, you have one of the recalls done and you may be hitting fel cut off when you try to move the car.

If you dont hear the Column lock bolt retract and engage do you have the GM Column lock Harness that was installed during the RECALL? If you have that harness, remove it and connect the male column lock connector to the female connector and see if that allows the Column lock bolt to retract and engage.

If you have a column lock error you will see one or more of the following DTCs: B-2587, 2588, 2592, 2593.

CLEAR ALL of your DTCs and see if any come back. List those.

Hopefully 8vette7 will chime in and give his EXPERT COLUMN LOCK ADVICE!

Bill

 

Thanks for the reply....I have never noticed the column locking since I owned the car...how would you tell if the recall was installed? I did not get the reinsert key message ever. I can drive the car for short periods of time...went up and down my street today several times before the car started stalling again. After my very first incident last week...I somehow cleared the problem and drove the car extensively for two days. After rain we got in the past few days the problem reappeared and go worse.

 

Well..my steering column def does not lock when key is removed...so I may have something happening due to recall workaround...and the BCM fuel cutoff...there is just no service column lock message. I am beginning to read a thread on this

 

Im having the same problem, starts dies but some times it will stay running for several minutes. I have replaced every sensor on the car, including the fuel pumps, filters, 4 Ing. Switches, Cleaned and replaced grounds, all news fusees, relays, Etc. When the car does start and run (sometimes for several miles) then just shuts off, Don't think it the clutch switch!! I also have the GM column upgrade. I have been getting a lot of help from Bill C.. Im out of Ideas, so really appreciate all his guidance, and all the corvette forum folks out there also.
The one thing that is making it all crazy is that fact that it will run fine in the start position. If or when I find and solve this nightmare I'll pass it on.
mike venth

 

It IS a nightmare...now my car won't even start...yesterday at least it would idle....I am not getting any fuel pressure at the rail...so something is either wrong with the pump or the circuit controlling it.