I do understand why we hear this so much. There have always been a large number of owners who generally only want to drive to the golf course or for a cruise on a perfect sunny day. The vast majority of the year, the car is sitting in the garage so that it never gets dirty. It's very easy to find 4-5 year old C7s with under 10K miles, some way under.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, GM has to cater to the wants and needs of a large percentage of the demographic that has historically purchased Corvettes.

 

I think you may have misread me, maybe due to the use of a double negative. What I said was “Don’t think that the FE is no longer viable.” It is viable as Ferrari stated about their front engine/rear transmission 812 Superfast being “THE FASTEST AND MOST POWERFUL FERRARI YET”.

 

Yeah, but a Demon is faster than a ZR1, but I doubt most sports car buyers would want one to fill a sports car role. Fast and powerful can mean a lot of things, its really easy to shove a giant engine up front and make it go fast in a straight line.

 

All of the people who have had 1000hp Twin Turbo c5 c6 and c7 roll their eyes when they hear that 750hp was the pinnacle of FE capability.

 

Yep, Ferrari is no doubt talking straight-line speed. You won't see the Superfast in FIA/WEC/IMSA competition.

 

First off, I really don't care if they continue to make a FE or not. I'd likely be a ME buyer over a FE buyer because I think it is going to come in base around current GS performance as well as price. And that is about where I am right now, I'm considering a current GS... or maybe wait go C8. I don't know.

Now, with that said, we all know the ME is coming for the C8. That is a fact.
We do not know if the FE Corvette is ending. GM, Chevy, etc. have never stated the FE is ending. The FE certainly might be ending. But the C7 could also still be simply revamped and sold as a FE C8. This still seems like the logical step from a marketing and sales perspective. The current C7 Stingray helps keep costs down for the rest of the model line because you get parts cheaper when you buy in larger numbers. The Base, 1LT Stingray coupe, still sells more than any other model of Corvette. By a wide margin. I don't think we will see a FE C8 Convertible, but I have a hard time seeing GM abandoning a really really good car that sells well, will help keep costs lower for the ME model, and still has demand in the market.

 

I love the video where one of our forum members is driving on a road course in his modified 418 cu in V8 supercharged high horsepower C5 with a new C7 Z06 behind him. Once they get clear of some slow traffic which was holding the C5 up, the C5 went off and left the C7 Z06. The C5 had more horsepower than the C7 Z06 and the C5 had no problem putting the power to the pavement. And did it without a bunch of huge spoilers or big wings or front splitters, etc.

 

Two different major Corvette dealers published today that last day to order a C7 convertible is 3 days from now (June 10). Last day to order a coupe is the week of July 18. That bulletin was sent by GM to dealers today. The FE is ending for now.

As for your other points, it does NOT make sense to offer both from a marketing and sales perspective. There will only be a market for a finite number of 2 seat Corvettes. You say the current C7 Stingray will keep the cost down, but the actual fact is that ordering fewer parts for each of two different platforms will drive the price of both up, and the two will compete against each other. The only way it might make sense is if they could sell 30K FEs a year, and 30K MEs a year. That ain't happening.

The FE Corvette could return at some point, but that would likely happen because the ME was a sales failure.

 

Again, not hard to shove a big engine in a car and make it go fast in a straight line. I'm betting a C7.R with its measly 550hp or so will still beat them around a road course. And I'm betting a ME will beat them both.

OK? Were both equivalently skilled drivers? What happened in the rest of the twisties (of course more HP = faster in a straight line)? And you do realize that wings and spoilers hinder straight line speed, right?

 

Our C6 TT cars were the best cars I've ever owned for all out performance.

We planned to TT the c7, and I'm sure it would have been the better car yet, but as you are aware probably, we realized its better to leave these cars stock, and trade them back in for others due to warranty work and lemon issues.

I would have gone up to 1200hp at the wheel in the c6 if I was not worried about the stock block holding together. I left it at 850 at the wheel just to keep the LS7 reliable, and it was, I never had an issue, nor did my friends with similar cars.

I did drive a friends 1150 at the wheel HP c6, and it was amazing. I loved every moment of it... but just too many reliability issues that came at that power level.

Anyway, the myth about frames bending from too much power, or the myths about FE being maxed out, that is all that they are, myths.

My c6z TT car was not even fair against others on a windy road or a roadcourse, it left people behind every step of the way, in the curve (it had a parkbench wing on the back), in the straights, everywhere I could lose every car I encountered.

I hope GM comes to their senses and strives to create a revolutionized FE where they put the DCT either right in front of, or even behind the rear axle.

If they offered that car in a retro 70's stingray look, similar to the Transformers silver/car, with peaked sharp front fenders and a long nose, and set the driver and passenger just in front of the rear axle, GM would knock it out of the park. People would buy it on style alone. Let the c8 have the spotlight for 3 years, and then bring another player into the game, and tag team the rest of the world with amazing front and mid-engine cars...

I hope they listen.

I'm not sure you know what you are talking about right now. The turbos were under the engine and have a lower center of gravity than the lt5 blower, and might have even weighed less.

Again, I had no issue leaving anyone in any curve. The car was dialed in.



On a side note, the next c7z I get into, I may decide to keep it, and if I do, I will TT that car. I am getting older, and am far too familiar and capable of predicting and recovering control of the c5-c7 platform when I lay the car out sideways at high speed.

While the ME might be a great car and handle better overall, it only takes one F*-up on my end where I correct incorrectly, and that is a totaled car and I am an injured/dead driver.

There comes a point as we get older, that sometimes new/better, is not always better.

I plan to take a c8 out to a large open area of pavement and play with it a lot before I buy one. I want to see how it drifts, how it recovers. How it loses control, etc.

As of this moment in time, I would take a c5-c7 over any other sports car on the planet which costs 500 grand or less.

Not because the corvettes are always the best... it's just what my mind understands as second nature.

If I don't buy a c8, I will end up buying something like the Mercedes AMG GTR or perhaps a used FE Ferrari, but I will have to drive the Ferrari first and make sure it is what I think it is.

I don't know if I trust myself to relearn to drive ME cars, I am on the edge too often.

 

Its easy to dial up the power, well, not easy, how do those 1100hp beasts do when it comes to longevity and emissions required in a road car? What I understand the statement to be in reference to is overall vehicle dynamics: people have been shoving engines behind the driver for a half century now for that reason. No, it is not maxed out power wise, it is maxed out suspension wise. My reference to the C7.R is that it is way down on power compared to some of the street variants, but engineering suspension and aero makes it faster overall. That is what they are limited with on with a FE, not to mention the drawback of not having a few hundred extra pounds sitting on some rear tires. Heck, they even mentioned that during the 24h of Daytona, that the Corvettes and BMWs were at a disdavantage in those regards in the wet.

And forgive me for not believing anyone that says no other cars could ever touch them. Either they are lying or they are running with competition well below what they should be running with.

 

I should have said "stock cars" and in the 2001-2008 era.

Sure, if you went and got a mclaren f1 or a konigsegg, I would probably be in trouble, but other than that, there was never a stock vehicle that I came in contact with that could hang with me.

If they were fast in a straight line, I would hunt for the curves. I love the curves, not because a corvette is the best (but its pretty close when dialed in properly, and btw, thats what I meant when i said dialed in... Ron Fellows set the top stage package of coil over suspension on my car himself, and for the track. And that is a car I daily drove) He spent over 2-3 hours dialing the car in.

The suspension was anything but maxed out. The car was magical... it seemed like it did not have grip, like you were at the edge... but once you slammed it into a curve, and the tires would really lay flat on the pavement at high lateral G's, it had a whole other level beyond what any stock c6 had.

The wing on the car would cause the car to "push" in handling at high speed...

but if a person had the guts and was halfway insane, they could get back on the throttle and kick the back end back out, to where the back tires would be under enough stress that they would kick out ever so slightly, and one could accelerate through a curve like no car I have ever been in.

The back tires were 345's and they would have so much grip under (hard acceleration in other cars, mediocre acceleration in this car)

The c7 is a better all-around handling car... more predictable for me, and thus less spooky and more fun.

The wing on the back of cars makes oversteer recoveries violent/spooky at times. The snap oversteer can be a challenge.

I am glad he c7 gave rear caster adjustments.

The c7 is not the end of the FE.. it might be GM's end to a top sports car with an FE, but Ferrari and Mercedes will absolutely march on, and put even my c6 TT car to shame. Power levels are just increasing too quickly for it NOT to happen in the next 3 years.

I hope to buy whatever THAT next car will be.

 

And now were twisting the conversation into modified cars...

1. What kind of tires are you all running on these 800-1000 horse RWHP cars? Will they pass GM's testing requirements for rain use? (Doubtful if you've got a grooved Hoosier R7 or any kind of drag radial).

2. Will your engine pass GM's 24 hours WOT test? Nope.

3. Will it pass GM's 24 hours of continuous road course use? Nope. I raced a C5 Z06 (NASA ST2) and time trialed my C7 (NASA TT2) My buddy keeps wanting to bring his LPE TT C5 out... but I try to explain to him that's not engineered to make it 20-30 minutes on a road course... it will melt down. There's just no room on these cars for turbos that can handle extended use other than maybe a rear mount setup i.e. STS.

The ZR1 is the max capability with streetable tires in a warrantiable package.

 

Only lap times tell the story, and I'm with Jeff here. Until presented with definitive evidence to the contrary, I'm not believing that a 1200 HP C6/7 TT is going to be any faster around any of the well-known road courses than a 500-700 HP similarly set up car in the hands of a pro. I also suspect it would be parked after relatively few laps.

 

There is no evidence to the contrary... I have been doing track stuff since '00 and joined NASA in 2005 and been racing and instructing and TTing since 2007. There are no mega power FI road course Corvettes.... none. Usually guys will bring out one as they want to dip their toes in.... they quickly de-mod or get a new car if they get hooked. Had a student many years ago with a non-IC'd Maggie blower C5 auto. Totally 100% wrong car for road course use. Now, 7 or 8 years later, he has 2 C5s with cages in them and is at the track often (him and his son).

EDIT - There's one guy on our FB group that has a C6 ZR1 with a crazy intercooler setup in the trunk and makes 800 rwhp, but the amount of money and fab work is nuts. Car is not streetable at all.

And yes there are cars made be German tuner TikT that are crazy, but they charge $20K just for their front cooling kit for the C7s.

 

believe it or not i was running MPSS of that era... rain was not a problem. I would only turn a couple laps, and once tires were too hot, I would chill for a bit. But on those first couple laps, I was lethal.

Were there better tires for the track? sure, but I am a person who loves a well-balanced car, that I can nonchalantly take to a track, have other racers look at my street tires and laugh, let their arrogance think it has the right to "begin to school me on tires"

and I then say "so you think you will beat me out here huh? "

and then when they say yes...

that is when the embarrassment comes...

and after that, their excuses come.

And I remind them, I did not school them or assume they knew less than I in the beginning, it was they who thought that they knew more than I about cars, and they thought it was wise to school me, as if they were my superior.

And when I drive away on my street legal rain capable tires, and they load their car up on their trailer, I roll down my window and say "what's the point of all of that when I'm faster than you and I spent less money today than you did... and my car is daily drivable? Who is the person who needs schooling?"

And then I drive away.

I'm not wicked to people until they assume they know more than I do... then I will squash that ill-founded ego they thought was a good idea to present back at step 1 before they gathered information themselves.

I agree that 850hp at the wheels is a great stopping point, 1000 at the crank...

and I also agree that anything above that becomes almost useless on a roadcourse.

Finesse is the key.

People who are used to driving lower HP cars, hated it. They were not patient enough to learn to control it.

Ron Fellows said it was probably the best c6 he had ever driven, due to how well rounded it was... it had street tires, but could turn lap times better than cars with slicks... just due to its sheer speed on the straights and also rear downforce aero.

Again, it had superior brakes, suspension, a huge front splitter, a parkbench wing... and the turbos were literally the lowest thing on the car.

Could you put me on a low top speed course and lots of windy curves and beat me with that setup I had, maybe with a miata even, sure.

But there are usually more than enough high speed areas that allowed me to make up ground and destroy people in any/every road legal car I would come across. 1000hp is a 1000hp... it's like a c7 zr1 on mpss compared to a c6 grand sport on slicks.... the grand sport is going down every time, there is too much of a power difference, is not rocket science here guys.

 

Sorry, you weren’t leaving anyone in the dust in the turns. C7 is superior to the C6 in the turns. Sure on straights I’d believe it but with that horsepower you should. Unless, you went all aftermarket with the suspension. I have a c6 ZR1 and c7 z06. And it’s not even close when it comes to cornering and lateral grip. I’ve had two cars over 1000 HP and without subframe connectors yes that frame is going to twist and get bent. I’ve seen some break at 1500 HP.

 

c7 was not invented yet back in 2012

I was only using the c7zr1 power as a point of reference to help other's brains keep up, and the 2019 zr1 is 250hp shy of what my car was.

the car had solid aftermarket motor mounts that also spanned the length of the engine to keep the stock aluminum block from twisting (which it did not need, but my friends with 1200hp convinced me it did)

120g in aftermarket.

Who else wants to join the list who say I'm a liar, before we make fools out of everyone and have to get Ron Fellows in here to vouch what the car was.

He signed the dash in a white/silver metallic pen, he was proud that he dialed in the suspension. It was the fastest c6 he said he had ever driven, outside a factory race car.

 

Mike you will never find anyone on CF with a bigger EGO than yours.

Funny BBB Vett never post on CF until Mike C7Z gets the permanent CF ban then suddenly BBB is here posting at record pace and talking same BS as Mike C7z.

Then BBB will claim he is disrespected by calling him out as being Mike yet he lies to everyone that BBB and Mike C7Z are one in the same and both with MASSIVE EGO ISSUES.


Mike don't hold your breath waiting for the next Front mid engine rear drive Corvette.

Never going to happen. The c8 will be a Hugh success and will be much better on the track compared to equivalent C7 models.

There is a reason no Front engine rear drive platform has posted under 7:04 at the ring.

Mid engine is just a better handling car on the track and will be even more fun to drive on the street as well.

GM front engine GT offering will continue to be the Camaro which will serve to fill the Front engine rear drive platform needs that GM will offer to their consumers.

If GM ever decides to brand the Corvette you can bet that would lead to a high performance SUV just like Porsche not another 2 seat sports car.

C7 is dead and won't be returning in 3 years or 5 years as you seem to think.

Heck Mike or BBB whatever your going by this week your an expert on or everything and anything car related. So I am sure you understand that GM is going away from cars and towards SUV so if another vehicle was introduced to Corvette line up it would be an SUV.

The SUV saved Porsche from bankruptcy but again you are all wise and powerful in the car business so you already know that.

 

I have an ego on things I know I'm right about, when met by others who first have egos so large, that they "know I'm lying"

read that line a few times.