Man brother, just based on my little bit of research and knowledge I would just paint and slap it back together. everything looks clean, no sludge at all, I don't see what I would call wear on the lifters. Maybe I can determine what this metal is today and I am going to run borrow a puller for the balancer so I should be able to pull the cam today.

 

I feel the same way! I can just see in my head someone sitting at home watching this thread thinking "this guy"
Nah! Just kidding, I really appreciate you guys help..

 

Hugie82 - Do you have anythoughts on the picture of the plug I posted with 50 miles on it?

 

I thought I would post this for you guys to see. It is what was left in the pan after I pulled it. I did take a magnet and the were a couple of larger (pin head size) pieces that I used it on and they were magnetic. When I was draining the oil there was just a steady silver streak running out of it.

 

When you took the main caps off, how did the crank look? Shiny, with no scratches? The little particles that are magnetic are steel or iron, they come from wear on the cam, lifters, cylinder walls, rings, maybe the distributor gear on the camshaft, or the timing chain gears.....all sorts of things. They are the bits that will cause damage to bearings and bearing surfaces. The non magnetic pieces are probably either bearing material or piston material, which is cause to be concerned. There are some pretty big chunks in that pic, but like I said before, close-up, flash photography can make things look worse than they really are. There may be a correlation between the cylinder scoring and the iron filings in the oil. Is it possible that this could be a freshly re-built engine, and this is the wear from the initial break-in? Doesn't sound likely, but I want to make sure. I would like you to carefully (don't slice a finger off!) cut open the oil filter, and tell us what you find in there, better yet, post a pic or two. I'd also like to see what the rod bearings look like, but that can wait until after the cam is out. If you have a really bad rod bearing, the corresponding crank throw will probably be scratched up, meaning, at the very least, a trip to the machine shop to be polished or or machined smooth. This will mean different size bearings, so don't go buying anything yet.

Here's a few articles on budget re-building an engine:

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0...d/viewall.html

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/116_03...d/viewall.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...k/viewall.html


You are elbow deep in a small-block, are you feeling like you're in over your head yet? Don't worry, we've got your back, as long as you keep sending the pics and asking the questions! Besides, it's too late to turn back now.......mua-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

How do I cut the filter in half without getting metal shavings in it?

 

Why worry about the filter at this point? Get the short block to the machine shop and have them look it over

 

Interesting thread...figured I'd post a few thoughts fairly quickly since I've got the day off and I need to go out and get to work on my own Vette...

(1) You're getting a lot of disparate (Look that up) opinions here...stop, and order yourself a copy of David Vizard's "How to Rebuild Your Small-Block Chevy" from HP Books. About $9.50 at Amazon.com. An absolutely INVALUABLE resource that will help you sort out the poseurs and BSer's from the people that really know what they're talking about.

(2) If I was you (And I HAVE been you in the past, except I wasn't lucky enough to start with a 4-Bolt, forged piston motor) I would view what I am currently seeing as a minor failure that can be corrected fairly easily with a few rather inexpensive parts-rings, bearings, gaskets, maybe some freezeplugs, and possibly a camshaft+lifters.

(3) If you make the commitment to continue with what I and a couple others are advising here, you also need some tools that are over/above simple hand tools. Harmonic balancer puller, torque wrench, cylinder hone, ring compressor, ring groove cleaner, piston ring expander, a carefully-sharpened putty knife, small medium-cut half-round file, some jeweler's files, baggies/ tape/ sharpie for labeling parts...all I can think of for now.

(4)Since it does appear that there was some detonation going on, you will want to get whatever large parts you intend to re-use magnafluxed to check for potential cracks (Block and heads). Don't know what kind of relationship you have with your local machine shop(s), but if they're like most they will want to charge you upwards of $50 to clean those items before they will magnaflux anything. Not necessarily cheap, but a good idea. If, however, they are using the old method known as 'hot-tanking', which uses a caustic soda ash for cleaning, your cam bearings will be destroyed by the process, necessitating replacement. If they use the newer/ kinder/ gentler 'jet-clean' method, your cam bearings can be saved. Just a heads-up; this is what you can expect.

(5)(This is just me)If it WAS me, I would take that motor completely apart, get the block and heads cleaned and magged, clean up the pistons and crank, lightly hone the cylinders myself, grind the valves (best for you to leave that to the machine shop), replace the cam with one recommended by one of the forum gurus that will work with your heads, and put the whole thing back together with new rings and bearings AFTER reading Mr. Vizard's book from cover-to-cover.

(5a) THIS WILL ALL COST A FEW BUCKS. If you are not willing to spend at least the minimum necessary, you cannot expect to obtain a satisfactory result.

(6) So far it looks like you have handled this matter from a careful and intelligent point of view. Continue doing that, don't get ahead of yourself, keep your BS sensors on full gain, and you'll be fine...

...my $1.380

 

how to rebuild your small block chevy by David Vizard. I like David, he's a really nice guy, guru at EFI, and regularly published in Popular Hotrodding magazine.

You can get rings at your local store, I'd advise against because cost-wise, you can save big bucks buying online from Summit/Jegs/Speedway or any of the other large parts houses.... and do take advantage of their tech support when you order - simply call the one of your choice, and let them walk you through the process.

In buying parts, the big boys - Felpro, Mogul, etc are known quality and I like their products - not perfect, mind you, but odds of getting good parts are really high with them.

As for the metal in the pan.... check the distributor gear for excessive wear. But a bit of metal isn't the end of the world - it could be from piston wear as well.

 

Looking at your cylinders and leakdown numbers I would get it torque plate honed instead of trying to do it yourself. Hope your bores are within specs to reuse your pistons.
with getting vizards book.

 

Just checking in! How does the tension look on this chain? Is it too loose?

 

Got the cam out...Here's what I got...


That says CWD


That says 30 as best as I can tell


What say you? Does this tell you anything? Scotty Do I need to send your cam home?

 

yes. It should be way tighter than that. Might have been align bored last rebuild and they used a stock chain. There are undersize chains available to correct this.

 

If they all looked like that it could easily be bad valve seals. A lot of guys take short cuts on the heads when they rebuild their engine. The timing chain is cheap. Try a stock one first before ordering a custom length. If it still has slop in it you can always sell a stock chain set

You do know you can't use that cam and lifters again if you mixed up the lifter order. They develop a wear pattern when new and it can't be broken in again especially with today's **** oil

The small block rebuild book is a good idea or a good manual will work. So now let's check the numbers on the rods are clear and start popping pistons out

 

Fatcat, settle down, will ya?

We are not making any decisions just yet. We are gathering information. Once we have gathered the neccessary info, then we make decisions. I know, I know, you've got ants in your pants, but try to settle down. Haste makes waste, look before you leap, and all that.

Re-read birdsmith's post, and follow it, to the letter. It sounds like the best advice you have gotten from anybody so far. Actually, the second best advice, the best advice is me telling you to follow birdsmith's advice!

I can't view the pics of that cam from the computer I am using here at work, but even if I could, it probably wouldn't mean much to me, one cam pretty much looks like any other cam to me. When I get home, I'll take a look and see if they tell me anything. In the meantime, does the distributor gear look like it has a weird wear pattern? How about the timing gear and chain? Mako says it looks loose, that might be the source of your iron filings. Uh-oh! A thought comes to mind. With all that iron, combined with bearing material, in the oil, I have been waiting to see a really bad bearing. I'm wondering now if what you were describing before wasn't detonation, but maybe.........the dreaded rod knock! I hope not! I hope you take those rod caps off and find nice shiny bearings!

To cut the filter open, poke a hole in it with a hammer and a nail, and cut it open with some sheetmetal shears. AirborneSilva is right, really, it doesn't really matter, it's more of a curiousity thing than anything else. I'm sure you are curious, too. And be careful!

Something to think about: Guys like me, who have only built a very few engines, and always on a budget, like to tell guys like you to take shortcuts to save money. We have slapped together a few engines, maybe even only one, and taken shortcuts to save money, and it has worked for us. (well, except one engine, I spent over 5 grand on the 440 for my Roadrunner, and that was back in 1988, and I assembled it myself, so that's not even counting labor.) Many guys who build lots of engines have learned the hard way, that when you roll the dice, sooner or later, you're gonna crap out. Be advised, that when you take shortcuts to save money, you are taking a risk. How much risk are you willing to take? How much money are you willing to spend to mitigate risk? These are questions that only you can answer.


Keep the shiny side up!
Scott

 

A lot of cams will have stamped on the end with a grind number or part number but if you didn't keep the lifters in order the cam is junk...sorry nothin you can do.

I'll give you a tip that I always use when I venture into something new. Google images and YouTube are awesome when it comes to seeing little tricks of the trade. Something simple like installing pistons with a ring compressor becomes a major PITA unless you watch the video and go Ohhhh, that's how ya do it

 

It's all good!!!! I did not know you could use a cam if the lifters got out of order but I assumed you could use the lifters if they did...Unfortunatey I wasn't thinking and started to flip the engine and forgot about the lifters and 3 fell out. I put them back in order the way I felt they cam out but they could be wrong...

So here are all the pictures after completely torn down. I will say this, I am starting to think I maybe shouldn't have done this. not because I am overwhelmed but because everything looks to be in good order. Cylinders look good, bearings no real wear that I can tell ect.









And now I have a broken piston!!!

 

I am going to check into downloading the book tomorrow!

 

I am too far in not to be commited! I knew going in I was going to have to spend a little or a lot depending on what I found.... I appreciate your compliment and am really trying to handle this right!

 

I distinctly remember telling you to keep the valvetrain parts organized in case you wanted to reuse them, especially the cam and lifters. This is the kind of thing that happens when you get all exited. Oh well, there no point in crying over spilled milk, you can get flat-tappet cams and lifters relatively cheap, let's keep moving forward. But, at a slower pace. We got aaaaaaaall winter to do this thing, so just simmer down.

Now, what's all this about a broken piston? One minute you are lamenting that you shouldn't have torn the engine down, because it looks so good inside (that's called 20/20 hindsight) the next, I'm hearing about a broken piston? I can't view the pics here at work, maybe I'm missing something that makes it all clear. I'll take another look when I get home around 1 AM.


Keep the shiny side up!

Scott