Borgeson Install
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
Likes: 2
From: rancho cucamonga ca
Why wouldn't someone go with a R&P? Is the Borgeson better? The Rack does not need the column shortened. Less hoses than the original & I think more space under the hood.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.
Last edited by colesweat; Mar 9, 2016 at 10:20 AM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
I went for the Borgeson over a R&P mostly because of cost but I heard a few horror stories with a R&P as well. First the cost, I think I aid right around $600 or so for my kit. The R&P would have been twice that if not more. I also heard a few people say that some of the R&P kits came with a weak cross member that caused issues down the road.
I will say this, I do enjoy the Borgeson kit in my car, it drives great, handles beautifully and doesn't leak all over the place. I also installed a spreader bar upfront to add to the stiffness. I would say the Borgeson upgrade was some of the best money spent on the car.
I know a few folks are going to say that the stock system was great and there's no point to install it but let's face it, a lot changes and advances have happened since the last C3 rolled off the assembly line 34 years ago so why not upgrade the car if it's going to give you better performance/handling.
I will say this, I do enjoy the Borgeson kit in my car, it drives great, handles beautifully and doesn't leak all over the place. I also installed a spreader bar upfront to add to the stiffness. I would say the Borgeson upgrade was some of the best money spent on the car.
I know a few folks are going to say that the stock system was great and there's no point to install it but let's face it, a lot changes and advances have happened since the last C3 rolled off the assembly line 34 years ago so why not upgrade the car if it's going to give you better performance/handling.
Why wouldn't someone go with a R&P? Is the Borgeson better? The Rack does not need the column shortened. Less hoses than the original & I think more space under the hood.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 22
From: Oxford CT
Why wouldn't someone go with a R&P? Is the Borgeson better? The Rack does not need the column shortened. Less hoses than the original & I think more space under the hood.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
Likes: 2
From: rancho cucamonga ca
I went for the Borgeson over a R&P mostly because of cost but I heard a few horror stories with a R&P as well. First the cost, I think I aid right around $600 or so for my kit. The R&P would have been twice that if not more. I also heard a few people say that some of the R&P kits came with a weak cross member that caused issues down the road.
I will say this, I do enjoy the Borgeson kit in my car, it drives great, handles beautifully and doesn't leak all over the place. I also installed a spreader bar upfront to add to the stiffness. I would say the Borgeson upgrade was some of the best money spent on the car.
I know a few folks are going to say that the stock system was great and there's no point to install it but let's face it, a lot changes and advances have happened since the last C3 rolled off the assembly line 34 years ago so why not upgrade the car if it's going to give you better performance/handling.
I will say this, I do enjoy the Borgeson kit in my car, it drives great, handles beautifully and doesn't leak all over the place. I also installed a spreader bar upfront to add to the stiffness. I would say the Borgeson upgrade was some of the best money spent on the car.
I know a few folks are going to say that the stock system was great and there's no point to install it but let's face it, a lot changes and advances have happened since the last C3 rolled off the assembly line 34 years ago so why not upgrade the car if it's going to give you better performance/handling.
I will never sell the car, so I don't mind it not being original. Just don't want to do the work twice.
I did read that the steeriods mounting was week & I did see in a post that the flaming river R&P has its own cross member, looks stronger.
also so the steeriods can get rid of bump steer & I don't think flaming rivers can.
I have a big block with 2 1/4 headers going in and I need all the room I can get
Last edited by colesweat; Mar 9, 2016 at 10:53 AM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
It's a good question, if the cost was the same which one would you go with? For me I would still go for the Borgeson as I like the handling and stiffness. Now the car drives like it has power assist instead of full blown power steering. I don't like that overly loose steering you get with some R&P's. Now if the R&P would act like a power assist and have more firmness and it was the same price as the Boergeson I would say which ever one will be more reliable, safer and easy to install.
But if the cost was not a factor, that's what I want to know. I've had the stock power steering for 29 years and I am ready for a change.
I will never sell the car, so I don't mind it not being original. Just don't want to do the work twice.
I did read that the steeriods mounting was week & I did see in a post that the flaming river R&P has its own cross member, looks stronger.
also so the steeriods can get rid of bump steer & I don't think flaming rivers can.
I have a big block with 2 1/4 headers going in and I need all the room I can get
I will never sell the car, so I don't mind it not being original. Just don't want to do the work twice.
I did read that the steeriods mounting was week & I did see in a post that the flaming river R&P has its own cross member, looks stronger.
also so the steeriods can get rid of bump steer & I don't think flaming rivers can.
I have a big block with 2 1/4 headers going in and I need all the room I can get
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,262
Likes: 1,678
From: Long Island
I went with the Borgeson install on my 71. The difference from the factory PS is unreal. It's so much better. I had a friend with the R&P there were clearance issues and after a hot summer drive there were internal leaks - needed to replace the O ring.
I just wanted a simple install and a factory look. Most people think it's stock. It's also the same 2 hoses.
Soak the column with Kerosene or penetrating oil for a few days and the install is real easy.
Loosen the rag joint, Take out the old joint, remove the old steering box, tap the column to shorten - go easy as it will move after the first 1/32 inch is achieved. Center the column and the box, then install the box and joint to the column - finish as per the instructions. I used a 2# rubber hammer and a piece of wood - it moved easy.
One thing they don't tell you is to loosen the floor plate and align the column, it makes the install easier.
I just wanted a simple install and a factory look. Most people think it's stock. It's also the same 2 hoses.
Soak the column with Kerosene or penetrating oil for a few days and the install is real easy.
Loosen the rag joint, Take out the old joint, remove the old steering box, tap the column to shorten - go easy as it will move after the first 1/32 inch is achieved. Center the column and the box, then install the box and joint to the column - finish as per the instructions. I used a 2# rubber hammer and a piece of wood - it moved easy.
One thing they don't tell you is to loosen the floor plate and align the column, it makes the install easier.
Last edited by BLUE1972; Mar 9, 2016 at 08:14 PM.
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Instructor
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
Likes: 2
From: rancho cucamonga ca
Does Borgeson make a aluminum steering box? I read the 600 came in aluminum.
I read something from Ride Tech yesterday and they said that the R&Ps that are available for the c3 does not place the rack in the right location. They said that is why they went with the Borgeson Box.
That helps me make up my mind, their c3 run good
I read something from Ride Tech yesterday and they said that the R&Ps that are available for the c3 does not place the rack in the right location. They said that is why they went with the Borgeson Box.
That helps me make up my mind, their c3 run good
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
The bearings provide the torque to steer, that is, is the hard connection between the inner and outer columns for turning.
The plastic must be crushed to allow the column to collapse. I wonder if soaking the column in solvent would soften the plastic to the point it offers no resistance to the column collapsing, thus giving the driver no protection in a front end collision. Just food for thought.
Pete
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
Likes: 2
From: rancho cucamonga ca
I question the advisability of doing this. The steering column is designed to collapse at a controlled rate. It does this by having an inner and outer column separated by a plastic material embedded with ball bearings.
The bearings provide the torque to steer, that is, is the hard connection between the inner and outer columns for turning.
The plastic must be crushed to allow the column to collapse. I wonder if soaking the column in solvent would soften the plastic to the point it offers no resistance to the column collapsing, thus giving the driver no protection in a front end collision. Just food for thought.
Pete
The bearings provide the torque to steer, that is, is the hard connection between the inner and outer columns for turning.
The plastic must be crushed to allow the column to collapse. I wonder if soaking the column in solvent would soften the plastic to the point it offers no resistance to the column collapsing, thus giving the driver no protection in a front end collision. Just food for thought.
Pete
I was told the column collapses a total of 8" on impact.
By the way what keeps the column from sliding up and down now that the plastic pin is broke?
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
what do you mean by no protection? The plastic retainer is now broken, so it does not hold anything anymore. The column has been collapsed by 2 - 2 1/2" so you still have 5 1/2 - 6" of travel left, it will just move easier with the plastic pin gone. Besides you should have your seat belt on anyway.
I was told the column collapses a total of 8" on impact.
By the way what keeps the column from sliding up and down now that the plastic pin is broke?
I was told the column collapses a total of 8" on impact.
By the way what keeps the column from sliding up and down now that the plastic pin is broke?
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
Likes: 2
From: rancho cucamonga ca
Were you thinking that spraying inside the column was going to damage the retainer for the *****?
Last edited by colesweat; Mar 10, 2016 at 11:50 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 57
Not a clue, just going from what I hear. So the pin holds the column together and a plastic retainer holds the ***** together. Does the retainer get broken also when you are collapsing the column? I thought that just the pin got damaged.
Were you thinking that spraying inside the column was going to damage the retainer for the *****?
Were you thinking that spraying inside the column was going to damage the retainer for the *****?
If I wanted to cut the shaft, rather than bang on it, to get the correct length, how would I do this?
Thanks
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,202
Likes: 4,187
From: Kannapolis NC
They're causing you to way over think this. The lower column slides up (and back down if needed) inside the bearing. The only "controlled rate of collapse" is how hard you hit something and push the front end of the car up into it. Just tap it up a couple of inches and put the rag joint on. It works great and you still have several inches of collapse, which by the way will do very little to protect you. If you want protection you'll have to get a car with an airbag.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 57
They're causing you to way over think this. The lower column slides up (and back down if needed) inside the bearing. The only "controlled rate of collapse" is how hard you hit something and push the front end of the car up into it. Just tap it up a couple of inches and put the rag joint on. It works great and you still have several inches of collapse, which by the way will do very little to protect you. If you want protection you'll have to get a car with an airbag.
However, I'm considering using one of Dr. Rebuild's steering column kits to rebuild my standard (not tilt/tele) column.
Should I decide to do so, would require my disassembling the column, anyway.
Does anyone know how to correctly shorten the shaft once it's out of the column?
Thanks
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,202
Likes: 4,187
From: Kannapolis NC
Yes, I understand.
However, I'm considering using one of Dr. Rebuild's steering column kits to rebuild my standard (not tilt/tele) column.
Should I decide to do so, would require my disassembling the column, anyway.
Does anyone know how to correctly shorten the shaft once it's out of the column?
Thanks
However, I'm considering using one of Dr. Rebuild's steering column kits to rebuild my standard (not tilt/tele) column.
Should I decide to do so, would require my disassembling the column, anyway.
Does anyone know how to correctly shorten the shaft once it's out of the column?
Thanks
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,262
Likes: 1,678
From: Long Island
The column is exposed to road salt, engine oil, exhaust heat, leaking exhaust, radiator heat, anti-freeze and water from rain and puddles. I don't think the column is going to dissolve with a soaking on the lower shaft. I'm sure the spray didn't go to far in. It mainly dissolves the gunk on the shaft and allows it to move freely.
I've done a few and never had an issue.. Some are 3 years old and one is a daily driver.
The Borgeson conversion is a GM box - so it's all GM.
I've done a few and never had an issue.. Some are 3 years old and one is a daily driver.
The Borgeson conversion is a GM box - so it's all GM.
Last edited by BLUE1972; Mar 10, 2016 at 11:13 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
Likes: 2
From: rancho cucamonga ca
The column is exposed to road salt, engine oil, exhaust heat, leaking exhaust, radiator heat, anti-freeze and water from rain and puddles. I don't think the column is going to dissolve with a soaking on the lower shaft. I'm sure the spray didn't go to far in. It mainly dissolves the gunk on the shaft and allows it to move freely.
I've done a few and never had an issue.. Some are 3 years old and one is a daily driver.
The Borgeson conversion is a GM box - so it's all GM.
I've done a few and never had an issue.. Some are 3 years old and one is a daily driver.
The Borgeson conversion is a GM box - so it's all GM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 477
From: NSW, Australia
C3 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Why wouldn't someone go with a R&P? Is the Borgeson better? The Rack does not need the column shortened. Less hoses than the original & I think more space under the hood.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.
I am in the middle of a body off and I read so many different ways to go, power or manual, Bergeson or R&P, Steeriods or flaming river.
It makes it very difficult to make up your mind.