Borgeson Install
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 57
Thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 57
FWIW, I read where the metal universal joint is not really a good idea.
It doesn't give very much whereas the rag joint flexes with the movement and twisting of the car.
In a street car the rag joint might be better than in a specialty vehicle.
I don't know, just speculation.
It doesn't give very much whereas the rag joint flexes with the movement and twisting of the car.
In a street car the rag joint might be better than in a specialty vehicle.
I don't know, just speculation.
If so, how much? Is it noticeable and bothersome?
Thanks
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,632
Likes: 112
From: Great Plains Iowa
What is the gain? I have ran the conventional pump/control valve/ram style power steering found on C2 and C3 Corvettes and 1950's and 1960's passenger cars and never had any leaks after resealing the control valve and the ram. Sooner or later the Borgeson will also leak so then what? Change back to the "better" OEM parts that are far easier and cheaper to work on? Just because the Borgeson is "different" that doesn't make it any better.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,202
Likes: 4,187
From: Kannapolis NC
What is the gain? I have ran the conventional pump/control valve/ram style power steering found on C2 and C3 Corvettes and 1950's and 1960's passenger cars and never had any leaks after resealing the control valve and the ram. Sooner or later the Borgeson will also leak so then what? Change back to the "better" OEM parts that are far easier and cheaper to work on? Just because the Borgeson is "different" that doesn't make it any better.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
What is the gain? I have ran the conventional pump/control valve/ram style power steering found on C2 and C3 Corvettes and 1950's and 1960's passenger cars and never had any leaks after resealing the control valve and the ram. Sooner or later the Borgeson will also leak so then what? Change back to the "better" OEM parts that are far easier and cheaper to work on? Just because the Borgeson is "different" that doesn't make it any better.
The Borgeson is not a unique, unknown design. It is an integral power steering box designed by Delco Remy for all GM car lines EXCEPT Corvette in the 60s. The then-current integral box was too large physically for the Corvette. Borgeson merely tool a later, smaller, lighter, intregal Delco Remy box designed for lighter, smaller vehicles, i.e., certain Jeep models.
It cleans up the under hood area, lessens leaks, gives a better steering feel, and quickens the steering ratio. What's not to like?
You don't have to like the idea, and certainly don't have to fit one to your Corvette, but many, many Corvette owners have made the switch and are happy with the result.
Pete
Last edited by PeteZO6; Jul 19, 2015 at 01:14 AM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
What is the gain? I have ran the conventional pump/control valve/ram style power steering found on C2 and C3 Corvettes and 1950's and 1960's passenger cars and never had any leaks after resealing the control valve and the ram. Sooner or later the Borgeson will also leak so then what? Change back to the "better" OEM parts that are far easier and cheaper to work on? Just because the Borgeson is "different" that doesn't make it any better.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 216
Likes: 16
From: Tanunda South Australia
What is the gain? I have ran the conventional pump/control valve/ram style power steering found on C2 and C3 Corvettes and 1950's and 1960's passenger cars and never had any leaks after resealing the control valve and the ram. Sooner or later the Borgeson will also leak so then what? Change back to the "better" OEM parts that are far easier and cheaper to work on? Just because the Borgeson is "different" that doesn't make it any better.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,262
Likes: 1,678
From: Long Island
Focusing on whether the stock power steering leaks or not is missing the point I think. The real gain with the Borgeson unit is the drivability ,you just can't compare the two .Find someone who has done the conversion and have a short drive in their car you will be amazed
I have both a 71 and 72. the 71 has the Borgeson unit, the 72 the cylinder. The difference is day and night. The 71 handles so much better and responds faster, less drift and pull. If your not NCRS the conversion is the way to go.
there is less chance of a leak....On a C3 the install is not really difficult.
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Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
From: Lake Arrowhead - Georgia > 72 Base Coupe & 74 BB Roadster
Finally started the borgeson kit.
So far so good. The new ragjoint lined up perfectly. I had to dremmell the steering shaft just a little to get the ragjoint to start on the splines. Borgeson sent the wrong hoses and I bought this kit almost a year ago so I didn't bother trying to get it swapped. I just got the correct hose from Summit. I can't wait to hook it all up and see how it drives!
One question....do the brass fittings need to be dropped into the holes before the hoses are threaded in?
One question....do the brass fittings need to be dropped into the holes before the hoses are threaded in?
Last edited by fotyfobravo; Jul 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 216
Likes: 16
From: Tanunda South Australia
So far so good. The new ragjoint lined up perfectly. I had to dremmell the steering shaft just a little to get the ragjoint to start on the splines. Borgeson sent the wrong hoses and I bought this kit almost a year ago so I didn't bother trying to get it swapped. I just got the correct hose from Summit. I can't wait to hook it all up and see how it drives!
One question....do the brass fittings need to be dropped into the holes before the hoses are threaded in?
One question....do the brass fittings need to be dropped into the holes before the hoses are threaded in?
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
From: Lake Arrowhead - Georgia > 72 Base Coupe & 74 BB Roadster
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 22
From: Oxford CT
I would suggest installing the fittings while the box is still on the bench. Mine were tight going in and if the car has pb its hard to press them in with the pb booster in the way once in the car.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,262
Likes: 1,678
From: Long Island
I just put mine in with my finger then put the hoses on, no issue.
Use a 1 or 2" wire brush in a drill and clean the shaft & splines. It makes life easier.
[B]The most critical part of the install is to make sure the steering box and the steering wheel are both at center... I marked them then slid the rag joint on the shaft. [/B]
If not the wheel will be off.
Use a 1 or 2" wire brush in a drill and clean the shaft & splines. It makes life easier.
[B]The most critical part of the install is to make sure the steering box and the steering wheel are both at center... I marked them then slid the rag joint on the shaft. [/B]
If not the wheel will be off.
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
From: Lake Arrowhead - Georgia > 72 Base Coupe & 74 BB Roadster
Pretty sure my ragjoint is positioned within a spline or two of center. Should be close enough for a good alignment guy to center easily. Thanks. I'll update results when I finish. I look forward to having a big block that actually steers like my Miata! 👍
I just put mine in with my finger then put the hoses on, no issue.
Use a 1 or 2" wire brush in a drill and clean the shaft & splines. It makes life easier.
[B]The most critical part of the install is to make sure the steering box and the steering wheel are both at center... I marked them then slid the rag joint on the shaft. [/B]
If not the wheel will be off.
Use a 1 or 2" wire brush in a drill and clean the shaft & splines. It makes life easier.
[B]The most critical part of the install is to make sure the steering box and the steering wheel are both at center... I marked them then slid the rag joint on the shaft. [/B]
If not the wheel will be off.
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
From: Lake Arrowhead - Georgia > 72 Base Coupe & 74 BB Roadster
Awesome write up! Thanks so much! The heat and dremmel trick saved me when putting the new ragjoint onto the steering shaft! 👍
I'm taking mine to the alignment shop next week.
What was the DEGREES of caster they recommended???? I know it's slightly different from normal. I've lost that paperwork with that info !
I'm taking mine to the alignment shop next week.
What was the DEGREES of caster they recommended???? I know it's slightly different from normal. I've lost that paperwork with that info !
Excellent question. Due to the machining of the splines on the steering box, there are only 4 possible ways to put on the pitman arm. I rotated the steering box through it's full range of motion and counted the turns and placed it halfway between. I would have had to be off by about 90 degrees to mess it up, so I figured I was safe.
This is a picture of the splines on my old steering box. The Borgeson box was machined to match these:
If you notice, there are larger gaps between some of the splines. There are four of these gaps around the thing and your stock pitman arm should match the pattern.
I hope this answers your question.
-Mr. Green
This is a picture of the splines on my old steering box. The Borgeson box was machined to match these:
If you notice, there are larger gaps between some of the splines. There are four of these gaps around the thing and your stock pitman arm should match the pattern.
I hope this answers your question.
-Mr. Green
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 22
From: Oxford CT
Awesome write up! Thanks so much! The heat and dremmel trick saved me when putting the new ragjoint onto the steering shaft! 👍
I'm taking mine to the alignment shop next week.
What was the DEGREES of caster they recommended???? I know it's slightly different from normal. I've lost that paperwork with that info !
I'm taking mine to the alignment shop next week.
What was the DEGREES of caster they recommended???? I know it's slightly different from normal. I've lost that paperwork with that info !
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
Caster aids tracking straight and in returning the wheels to straight ahead after cornering. With all the boost the Borgeson gives, you won't notice an increase in steering effort. Pete