IMPORTANT ELECTRICAL INFORMATION (Long!)
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
Likes: 82
From: Charlotte NC
Update: Pulled left actuator. tore it apart. The nylon Output gear was split. Superglue didn't work. I tried rotating the gear and reassembling so that the split part would not contact any other gears, and reinstalled in car. I got my AC working, but now I think the gear is slipping around the aluminum piece that it is pressed on to. I'll order my new actuator in the AM. And in case you didn't know, pulling the left actuator is really fun for your back.
Two codes to go: the one for the Outside Air Temp short to ground, and the TCS code for Steering Bias.
Two codes to go: the one for the Outside Air Temp short to ground, and the TCS code for Steering Bias.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Likes: 1
From: Mendota Heights MN
Bill, and others that contribute to this thread,
Many thanks for sharing your expertise. I was able to find the exact problem causing 2 electrical gremlins in my vette by reading your previous responses and advice.
A satisfied "customer"!
Many thanks for sharing your expertise. I was able to find the exact problem causing 2 electrical gremlins in my vette by reading your previous responses and advice.
A satisfied "customer"!
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: elba al
gas gauge
while iam driving on a trip after a half hour or so gauge goes to E. then after a little 20 min. or so it will start working again it did it several times on my 6 hour to fla. what might be causing that to happen how do you fix it thank you jim dodd
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville MD
Update on IAT sensor
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
ALWAYS SOLDER!!!!!!!!! Get some quality heat shrink , slide it on the wire prior to making the connections and you will be able to make the repair look almost as good as new!
BC
BC
Will re-run new wire, new plug, solder, etc. and try again!
Racer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by NVR BRNG
Can someone help me in continuing to troubleshoot my no-start issue?
I have an '00 'Vert MN6 w/ 41k mi. So. CA warm weather / weekender car with H/C, bolt-ons & custom PCM tune, other brake & suspension mods.
Current starting problem:
On 1st turn of the key to start, the engine will start and then immediately die, as if fuel / ignition is being cut off. It takes 2-3 restarts to get the motor to fire & run. This occurs regardless if whether the car is cold or warmed up. Once the engine is running, the car runs normally. On restart, it takes 2-3 cycles to get the motor to run.
1) No Codes.
2) No DIC messages.
3) Column Lock works normally. No CLB installed.
4) Normal Battery / Charging system.
5) Cleaned Pellets on both ignition keys.
6) I have resolved all recent DIC Codes, these only related to a low voltage IAT sensor, which I Replaced.
7) I replaced the ignition switch and reused the OE lock cylinder & OE keys. I did notice that some function returned with the new switch, such as the back up lights flashing when the "lock" button on the fob was pressed. I was hoping that the switch was going to resolve the starting issues.
8) G101 & G102 grounds checked out totally clean, so I stopped there.
9) Checked connection for neutral start switch underneath clutch pedal, but haven't checked voltage yet.
The only other recent change was that I had a new RPS clutch & flywheel + 3.90 gears installed @ A&A. Ever since I got the car back, I've been having the starting issue and initiated the above troubleshooting process, but the problem persists. Since the motor starts up then immediately dies, something is still shutting off fuel / ignition, but after 2-3 restarts it will fire up & run.
Can anyone advise on other things to rule out to resolve this issue?
I have an '00 'Vert MN6 w/ 41k mi. So. CA warm weather / weekender car with H/C, bolt-ons & custom PCM tune, other brake & suspension mods.
Current starting problem:
On 1st turn of the key to start, the engine will start and then immediately die, as if fuel / ignition is being cut off. It takes 2-3 restarts to get the motor to fire & run. This occurs regardless if whether the car is cold or warmed up. Once the engine is running, the car runs normally. On restart, it takes 2-3 cycles to get the motor to run.
1) No Codes.
2) No DIC messages.
3) Column Lock works normally. No CLB installed.
4) Normal Battery / Charging system.
5) Cleaned Pellets on both ignition keys.
6) I have resolved all recent DIC Codes, these only related to a low voltage IAT sensor, which I Replaced.
7) I replaced the ignition switch and reused the OE lock cylinder & OE keys. I did notice that some function returned with the new switch, such as the back up lights flashing when the "lock" button on the fob was pressed. I was hoping that the switch was going to resolve the starting issues.
8) G101 & G102 grounds checked out totally clean, so I stopped there.
9) Checked connection for neutral start switch underneath clutch pedal, but haven't checked voltage yet.
The only other recent change was that I had a new RPS clutch & flywheel + 3.90 gears installed @ A&A. Ever since I got the car back, I've been having the starting issue and initiated the above troubleshooting process, but the problem persists. Since the motor starts up then immediately dies, something is still shutting off fuel / ignition, but after 2-3 restarts it will fire up & run.
Can anyone advise on other things to rule out to resolve this issue?
Fuel pressure is good @ 54 psi after 20min. on the gauge.
No DIC messages and No Codes.
Checked all as noted above.
Same symptoms persist.
What else is there to check?
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville MD
Still need help with backfire
Originally Posted by mowrey96
Soldered both ends. Still having problems. Bought 22 gauge wire (ran 18 gauge by accident first time), heat shrink tubing and new IAT sensor plug.
Will re-run new wire, new plug, solder, etc. and try again!
Will re-run new wire, new plug, solder, etc. and try again!
I unplugged the IAT plug and still have the same backfire problem. Typically fine for a few minutes then it begins. Intermittent backfire, usually under load, but occasionally at idle.
Anyone have any other ideas of what might be causing this???
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,396
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Lets start form scratch so that were not overlooking something simple! 
I am trying to list all the things that can cause a back fire.
Do you ever see the check engine light flash when the problem happens? If it does, you could have a cracked plug, bad wire, loose wire or a bad coil! Look listen and watch for arcing from the coil packs.
Check the ground connection on the drivers head on the back side near the fire wall. It must be tight and in good condition. The ground will be TWO black/white stripe wires that terminate in a single metal eyelet.
Have you done a compression test to make sure it isn't a bad valve. If you can run the car up to red line and it doesn't pop or struggle to get there, it most likely isn't a valve spring.
Clogged cats will cause it to back fire BUT will also cause it to loose power under load.
If you had the coil packs off the car, they could be on the wrong side.
If you had your exhaust system out, the O2 sensors could be swapped.
If you have a K&N or some type of oiled air filter, your MAF sensors could be coated with oil/dirt. I would spray them off with Brake Parts cleaner and make sure that they are clean!!
Make sure that your intake tract between the MAF is completely sealed! Make sure that your air bridge isn't deformed or cracked!
Well, I have exhausted my back fire problem options!
Please check each one and see if you can see any thing that may be at fault!
Bill Curlee
I am trying to list all the things that can cause a back fire.Do you ever see the check engine light flash when the problem happens? If it does, you could have a cracked plug, bad wire, loose wire or a bad coil! Look listen and watch for arcing from the coil packs.
Check the ground connection on the drivers head on the back side near the fire wall. It must be tight and in good condition. The ground will be TWO black/white stripe wires that terminate in a single metal eyelet.
Have you done a compression test to make sure it isn't a bad valve. If you can run the car up to red line and it doesn't pop or struggle to get there, it most likely isn't a valve spring.
Clogged cats will cause it to back fire BUT will also cause it to loose power under load.
If you had the coil packs off the car, they could be on the wrong side.
If you had your exhaust system out, the O2 sensors could be swapped.
If you have a K&N or some type of oiled air filter, your MAF sensors could be coated with oil/dirt. I would spray them off with Brake Parts cleaner and make sure that they are clean!!
Make sure that your intake tract between the MAF is completely sealed! Make sure that your air bridge isn't deformed or cracked!
Well, I have exhausted my back fire problem options!
Please check each one and see if you can see any thing that may be at fault!
Bill Curlee
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Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,396
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
During the first few minutes,, your in open loop!! The PCM is running the engine off a preset table of fuel curves. After that your in CLOSED loop! The engine uses the O2 sensors, MAF, IAT, and throttle position sensor to determine the correct information to make the engine run. So, you have a closed loop problem! Were getting there!
I would get the engine on a scanner (EFI LIVE, HP Tuners ect..) and see whats up!
If you can get the O2 sensor reading with a volt meter, it should swing low to hi--high to low 200-400 mv then 400-900 mv.
Could be a bad sensor!
Bill
I would get the engine on a scanner (EFI LIVE, HP Tuners ect..) and see whats up!
If you can get the O2 sensor reading with a volt meter, it should swing low to hi--high to low 200-400 mv then 400-900 mv.
Could be a bad sensor!
Bill
Last edited by Bill Curlee; May 29, 2006 at 09:34 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 146
Likes: 1
From: Ortonville Mi
Can someone help me 2001 w/Christmas tree lights for dash
I've been lurking for weeks trying to self diagnosis my problem. What happened about three weeks ago all the warnings came on and it said check tire pressure, low power mode,check active handleing. Had no power windows, what a mess. So being the do it yourselfer I am, I dissconnected the battery and it temporally fixed it for the last 1,000 or so miles. And now it.
's back, can't clear it what ever I do it keeps comming back. Also lots of trouble codes, I meen LOTS! Like 24.
I notice that when it was sort of woking ok the memory seat doesn't always work everytime, also when I drove it at dark in the morning about 1/2 mile fromhome the lights would dim slightly for a brief moment then be ok. If I need a PCM where's a good place to get it from. I did clean and check the grounds under the hood, 4 of them and they were super clean to begin with. The car has 30,000 miles and is in terrific condition. when I relearn the PCM clear the codes it runs great, then it starts usually with the buttons not functioning on the drivers door, then the active handleing light comming on then after a few sec's everything goes REAL WACKY. I need help
TIA Dan from MI
's back, can't clear it what ever I do it keeps comming back. Also lots of trouble codes, I meen LOTS! Like 24.
I notice that when it was sort of woking ok the memory seat doesn't always work everytime, also when I drove it at dark in the morning about 1/2 mile fromhome the lights would dim slightly for a brief moment then be ok. If I need a PCM where's a good place to get it from. I did clean and check the grounds under the hood, 4 of them and they were super clean to begin with. The car has 30,000 miles and is in terrific condition. when I relearn the PCM clear the codes it runs great, then it starts usually with the buttons not functioning on the drivers door, then the active handleing light comming on then after a few sec's everything goes REAL WACKY. I need help
TIA Dan from MI
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 146
Likes: 1
From: Ortonville Mi
Update
Hi All- on the way to work this morn it did it again. After clearing all codes the dr door switches were still inopperable. So I opened the door and grabbed the wires in the dr opening and moved them back and forth while pushing the buttons and then the switches started working. I think the dr door harness is where the problem is? I talked to a service eng. at GM this morn and he said thats the place to start if it was a BCM it wouldn't be intermitent like I'm haveing. He said harnesses thru doors is a big problem.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 146
Likes: 1
From: Ortonville Mi
check this out
Power door lock or power window may be inoperative or intermittently may
not work from one of the doors.
Recommendation/Instructions:
While attempting to operate the function, grab the conduit of the C201
connector and move it back and forth. If the function now operates, check
corresponding connectors to ensure that all of the connector pins are fully
seated and are free of any corrosion.
Care should be taken to check for a deformed (too large internal diameter)
female pin. Replace loose/damaged female terminals in connector. Usually
terminals A, B, C (power and/or ground) C200 and C201 are located in
corresponding "A" pillar just inboard of door hinge area harness
conduit/pass-through.
not work from one of the doors.
Recommendation/Instructions:
While attempting to operate the function, grab the conduit of the C201
connector and move it back and forth. If the function now operates, check
corresponding connectors to ensure that all of the connector pins are fully
seated and are free of any corrosion.
Care should be taken to check for a deformed (too large internal diameter)
female pin. Replace loose/damaged female terminals in connector. Usually
terminals A, B, C (power and/or ground) C200 and C201 are located in
corresponding "A" pillar just inboard of door hinge area harness
conduit/pass-through.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville MD
Update on IAT sensor
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
During the first few minutes,, your in open loop!! The PCM is running the engine off a preset table of fuel curves. After that your in open loop! The engine uses the O2 sensors, MAF, IAT, and throttle position sensor to determine the correct information to make the engine run. So, you have a closed loop problem! Were getting there!
I would get the engine on a scanner (EFI LIVE, HP Tuners ect..) and see whats up!
If you can get the O2 sensor reading with a volt meter, it should swing low to hi--high to low 200-400 mv then 400-900 mv.
Could be a bad sensor!
Bill
I would get the engine on a scanner (EFI LIVE, HP Tuners ect..) and see whats up!
If you can get the O2 sensor reading with a volt meter, it should swing low to hi--high to low 200-400 mv then 400-900 mv.
Could be a bad sensor!
Bill
Got on the scanner. IAT sensor is working great.
We locked it in open loop and still had a backfire problem!
My tuner said that it is calling for more fuel and thinks it could be an intake manifold leak. It is a Fast 78 MM Intake. I have read several post discussing the challenges of getting a good fit with the FAST intakes. We cannot find an exterior leak. Tomorrow we are going to put on an LS6 intake to see if that cure's it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
From: Branchburg, NJ
Getting Service ABS/ TC/ AH warning on DIC. Code is C1214 H C. Cleaned and greased G-101 & 102, but to no avail.
Any other ideas? Car's still under warranty, just trying to avoid taking it to stealership at all costs!
Any other ideas? Car's still under warranty, just trying to avoid taking it to stealership at all costs!
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville MD
Originally Posted by mowrey96
Got on the scanner. IAT sensor is working great.
We locked it in open loop and still had a backfire problem!
My tuner said that it is calling for more fuel and thinks it could be an intake manifold leak. It is a Fast 78 MM Intake. I have read several post discussing the challenges of getting a good fit with the FAST intakes. We cannot find an exterior leak. Tomorrow we are going to put on an LS6 intake to see if that cure's it.
We locked it in open loop and still had a backfire problem!
My tuner said that it is calling for more fuel and thinks it could be an intake manifold leak. It is a Fast 78 MM Intake. I have read several post discussing the challenges of getting a good fit with the FAST intakes. We cannot find an exterior leak. Tomorrow we are going to put on an LS6 intake to see if that cure's it.
Recap:
IAT sensor, plug, and wires replaced.
Intake replaced.
No sensors reading improperly when backfiring occurs.
backfires in open and closed loop.
Backfires intermittently under load, but on occasion when coasting at idle.
Owner frustrated.
Any ideas?
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 146
Likes: 1
From: Ortonville Mi
mowrey96-
If your tuner leaned out your fuel/air mix too far you could of overheated your valves and burned them causing backfiring and excessive fuel consumption. You can lean these out too far. Do a compression test. I did this on a '68 Triumph mtr cycle when I put straight pipes on w/o rejetting carb, screwed up valves big time. After bike got hot it backfired like crazy and gas just ran thru the motor, probably got 6 miles to the gal.
Also, look for crossed wires, althoouh I'm sure you prob already did that.
,Dan
If your tuner leaned out your fuel/air mix too far you could of overheated your valves and burned them causing backfiring and excessive fuel consumption. You can lean these out too far. Do a compression test. I did this on a '68 Triumph mtr cycle when I put straight pipes on w/o rejetting carb, screwed up valves big time. After bike got hot it backfired like crazy and gas just ran thru the motor, probably got 6 miles to the gal.
Also, look for crossed wires, althoouh I'm sure you prob already did that.
,Dan
Racer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by NVR BRNG
Can someone help me in continuing to troubleshoot my no-start issue?
I have an '00 'Vert MN6 w/ 41k mi. So. CA warm weather / weekender car with H/C, bolt-ons & custom PCM tune, other brake & suspension mods.
Current starting problem:
On 1st turn of the key to start, the engine will start and then immediately die, as if fuel / ignition is being cut off. It takes 2-3 restarts to get the motor to fire & run. This occurs regardless if whether the car is cold or warmed up. Once the engine is running, the car runs normally. On restart, it takes 2-3 cycles to get the motor to run.
1) No Codes.
2) No DIC messages.
3) Column Lock works normally. No CLB installed.
4) Normal Battery / Charging system.
5) Cleaned Pellets on both ignition keys.
6) I have resolved all recent DIC Codes, these only related to a low voltage IAT sensor, which I Replaced.
7) I replaced the ignition switch and reused the OE lock cylinder & OE keys. I did notice that some function returned with the new switch, such as the back up lights flashing when the "lock" button on the fob was pressed. I was hoping that the switch was going to resolve the starting issues.
8) G101 & G102 grounds checked out totally clean, so I stopped there.
9) Checked connection for neutral start switch underneath clutch pedal, but haven't checked voltage yet.
The only other recent change was that I had a new RPS clutch & flywheel + 3.90 gears installed @ A&A. Ever since I got the car back, I've been having the starting issue and initiated the above troubleshooting process, but the problem persists. Since the motor starts up then immediately dies, something is still shutting off fuel / ignition, but after 2-3 restarts it will fire up & run.
Can anyone advise on other things to rule out to resolve this issue?
I have an '00 'Vert MN6 w/ 41k mi. So. CA warm weather / weekender car with H/C, bolt-ons & custom PCM tune, other brake & suspension mods.
Current starting problem:
On 1st turn of the key to start, the engine will start and then immediately die, as if fuel / ignition is being cut off. It takes 2-3 restarts to get the motor to fire & run. This occurs regardless if whether the car is cold or warmed up. Once the engine is running, the car runs normally. On restart, it takes 2-3 cycles to get the motor to run.
1) No Codes.
2) No DIC messages.
3) Column Lock works normally. No CLB installed.
4) Normal Battery / Charging system.
5) Cleaned Pellets on both ignition keys.
6) I have resolved all recent DIC Codes, these only related to a low voltage IAT sensor, which I Replaced.
7) I replaced the ignition switch and reused the OE lock cylinder & OE keys. I did notice that some function returned with the new switch, such as the back up lights flashing when the "lock" button on the fob was pressed. I was hoping that the switch was going to resolve the starting issues.
8) G101 & G102 grounds checked out totally clean, so I stopped there.
9) Checked connection for neutral start switch underneath clutch pedal, but haven't checked voltage yet.
The only other recent change was that I had a new RPS clutch & flywheel + 3.90 gears installed @ A&A. Ever since I got the car back, I've been having the starting issue and initiated the above troubleshooting process, but the problem persists. Since the motor starts up then immediately dies, something is still shutting off fuel / ignition, but after 2-3 restarts it will fire up & run.
Can anyone advise on other things to rule out to resolve this issue?
Could this be related to a Column Lock issue even though there are no CL issues or symptoms of a CL problem?
Still trying to figure out what to check & rule out to diagnose the problem! Anyone with suggestions on what to check I am
.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
Likes: 82
From: Charlotte NC
I figured i'd update my situation to help anyone who may search these problems in the future.
HVAC codes:
HVAC (Dual climate control):
B0332 Outside temp short to ground
B0361 Left actuator feedback short to ground
B0441 Left actuator out of range.
B0361 and B0441 was taken care of by replacing the left actuator. The output gear on the stock unit had split, so the actuator was unable to move it's door to the appropriate position... the door was either stuck blowing hot air or cold air. New actuator cost about $100 and took about 45 min to R&R.
B0332: The display on my HVAC was stuck at 68*. A new sensor did not fix the problem. Since I had a bunch of lights out on the HVAC unit, and a couple segments of the temp display were stuck on, I decided to get a new unit. I got a reman'd unit from the guy on Ebay who does it for $100. I think his name was Carl, anyways he was good to deal with, fast shipping. He said he didn't think the unit could case the problem I was having, but sure enough when i put the new HVAC unit in, all was well with the outside temp sensor. It took about 30 min to R&R the HVAC unit.
HVAC codes:
HVAC (Dual climate control):
B0332 Outside temp short to ground
B0361 Left actuator feedback short to ground
B0441 Left actuator out of range.
B0361 and B0441 was taken care of by replacing the left actuator. The output gear on the stock unit had split, so the actuator was unable to move it's door to the appropriate position... the door was either stuck blowing hot air or cold air. New actuator cost about $100 and took about 45 min to R&R.
B0332: The display on my HVAC was stuck at 68*. A new sensor did not fix the problem. Since I had a bunch of lights out on the HVAC unit, and a couple segments of the temp display were stuck on, I decided to get a new unit. I got a reman'd unit from the guy on Ebay who does it for $100. I think his name was Carl, anyways he was good to deal with, fast shipping. He said he didn't think the unit could case the problem I was having, but sure enough when i put the new HVAC unit in, all was well with the outside temp sensor. It took about 30 min to R&R the HVAC unit.