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Has anyone been able to remove the front sway bar using a quick jack? I am looking over AFE's instructions and I don't think my quick jack will get high enough.
Has anyone been able to remove the front sway bar using a quick jack? I am looking over AFE's instructions and I don't think my quick jack will get high enough.
could be a struggle but I think feasible. Need to lower subframe about 1.5” for front AFE bar. The subframe bolts are about 2.5”. I didn’t remove the bolts completely and left about 1” thread engagement when dropping subframe. The pain will be trying to disconnect all the clips for electrical stuff and for brake lines on top of the subframe before dropping with limited space under the car. It will be a pita. I would not want to try that myself.
I got the Z06 front bar in. Unfortunately, my digital calipers took a dump but with the markings on it, manually it appears to be a 1" bar. The only reference I have on size for the stock front bar is from an old Hagerty's article 'both the base and Z51 trims receive a 30.5-mm stabilizer bar in the front '. If that's correct, it would appear the Z06 bar is a smaller diameter.
Has anyone measured diameter of OEM front bar?
I'm guessing the thought was with higher spring rates, a softer front bar would help with the push. I'd still like to run this bar but the dropping of the front crossmember without a lift seems a bit daunting. I guess the alternative is the Z51 rear bar,, it's pretty cheap at $120.
As a sidebar, I haven't heard anything from Speedway on my spring and shocks testing. I guess I need to call them next week.
Check out the Eibach instructions. You don't need to lower the subframe to get the old bar out. Basically, you disconnect the passenger side of the steering rack and take out the driver's side shock.
Check out the Eibach instructions. You don't need to lower the subframe to get the old bar out. Basically, you disconnect the passenger side of the steering rack and take out the driver's side shock.
@gtpvette Just make sure if you try this that you also disconnect the spindle from the upper control arm like in the picture. I had both shocks out and disconnected the entire steering rack and didnt have enough room to snake it out. You need to pop that ball joint and move the spindle out of the way to do that. If the Z06 bar is really the same size or smaller than the stock bar then I would think it would go in that way too.
What I would really like to know is if the AFE bar can go in without lowering the sub frame. If it can't, I'm probably going to let my local speed shop do it since I don't have a lift.
Indeed, Z51 bar is thicker, and I bet it would perform better at the track than anything smaller. If anything, if I were to remove the OEM bar, it'd be for a stiffer setup like AFE.
I was informed while attending a track day at Laguna Seca that the AFE bar could be installed without dropping the cradle. He also recommended I not use the AFE bushings but rather use delrin bushing and they could be purchased from Ridetech. If I recall correctly the c7 diameter/size is same as C8 AFE bar size. He highly recommended this upgrade for the c8 if tracking the car.
Both the base C8 & Z51 models are set up to understeer. (Understeer is stable, safe and keep law suits for auto makers to a minimum.)
However, the penalty for understeer is slower corner turn in and limiting cornering G's if the car understeer a lot.
I have an LT1 and drove a Z51 for 2 days at the Ron Fellows racing school. Both cars use the SAME front swaybar. The Z51 difference is a modest increase in spring rates BUT the stiffer rear bar is the significant change that aids turn-in (in roll) making the front end more responsive. However, Z51 is still too soft for serious track driving.
In Changing springs & bars, It is important to consider the effect on the chassis as a whole system. The best approach is to calculate Wheel Rates, the combination of spring and swaybar. Asking the spring & bar makers for info can be very helpful as they have usually done some level of testing .
Check out the Eibach instructions. You don't need to lower the subframe to get the old bar out. Basically, you disconnect the passenger side of the steering rack and take out the driver's side shock.
Yep, did it Saturday to my car. A lot of head scratching and cuss words, but got it out. The Eibach one goes back in much smoother, one reason I didn’t put mounts on new one until in car.
About to drop the most helpful forum post in all of existence
Time for my contribution to this. Things i wish i knew, bla bla
I did the front sways on sunday. I haven't driven the car (on track) yet.
Yes it's huge PITA.
I went the eibach instructions route and got it done with the AFE bar and eibach end links. Difficulties i encountered & tips for others who dare.
The eibach instructions do a lot of assuming. I've always preferred AFE as they're more detailed. One instance of this is the suspension plastic covers are assumed to be off.
Taking off the end link bolts was a struggle. Mostly because i couldn't fit an impact anywhere close. Had to use a breaker bar. You need enough clearance for this, luckily the tlx5000 has.
It's a little difficult getting to the 3rd coilover bolt, but can be done with a long 13mm and ratchet
I could not for the life of me get the upper control arm spindle no matter how much malletting and hammering. SO i took off the 4 bolts attaching the UAC to the body. Much easier time tbh. Funny enough when i was reattaching everything together the spindle came lose haha. my luck
You need to take the brackets off the stock sway bars BEFORE attempting to move it. it can and it will get stuck if they're still on there. The silver metal bracket (not the bushings)
I didn't need to disconnect the steering column. I had a friend help me take out the bar so we worked in tandem on each end. i HIGHLY recommend this even if it's JUST to take the bar out and put one in. One of you can see obstructions the other can't.
My biggest headache was fastening the sway bar bracket from AFE. Due to the construction of the bracket, and the cars limited space, it was near impossible to get the bolt fastened. and certainly harder to torque to spec. You can see what i mean in the pictures. figure out your strategy for this before even taking the wheel off. The alternative is to drop the subframe and i suspect this is why AFE went that route. Maybe something like this with a shallow (skinny because the bracket is thick) socket might work.
Using an offset wrench helped. minimalism goes a long way. At some point i went to 3d print a socket 'adapter' that i can use to grab onto and twist/tighten. If anyone had any other bright ideas, please drop em.
I set the front to middle and the rears to softest. I wanted to set the rears to softest, but with the adjustable endlinks the bar prevents this so need to buy spacers up there too. However this setting is still a stiffer ratio compared to stock on the rear. Stock F/r is about 1.6, middleF/softestR AFE is about 1.4
20mm space for the front was mentioned to work with eibach endlinks. That's correct but i asked for information earlier about exactly what hardware. Well, i'm here to answer by trial and error.
Longer bolt. From boltdepot 2x Metric hex bolts, Zinc plated class 10.9 steel, 12mm x 1.25mm x 80mm
Finally, time commitment. I usually 2x any official estimate gives. This is no exception. Started 11a, finished 11p. afe instructions say 6 hours. of course theres lunch, distractions, trips to tool stores included. someone getting paid to do this can knock it out much faster. But then they don't have to stand and stare and wonder what tool is needed to do what and how. Mostly done alone on a quickjack except for removing and replacing the bar.
Relevant torque specs
13mm shock tower bolts - 22lbft
21mm lower shock bolt - 118lbft
15mm sway bar bracket - 43lbft
Wheel speed sensor - 80lb INCHES
Tie rod
Inside- 77lbft
outside- 22lbft + 125 deg
Sway bar link nut
OEM- 74lbft + 30-45deg.
eibach endlink instructs- 95lbft
Upper control arm knuckle nut- 37lbft + 120deg
Upper control arm chassis bolt - 43lbft
Hope this helps someone now or in 20 years
Offset wrench! almost no gap Offset wrench didn't buy itself Didn't have to take off steering column. you might though stock 3d printed socket insert to allow locking pliers to grab onto to tighten. ayye!
Just want to confirm, spacer is only needed in the rear if not using softest setting correct? Any feedback if you feel there could be some clearance issues even in softest position based on the previous persons picture in this thread without a spacer? What are you going to try for sizes here?
pic from SPOHN
Originally Posted by oooseun
I set the front to middle and the rears to softest. I wanted to set the rears to softest, but with the adjustable endlinks the bar prevents this so need to buy spacers up there too. However this setting is still a stiffer ratio compared to stock on the rear. Stock F/r is about 1.6, middleF/softestR AFE is about 1.4
20mm space for the front was mentioned to work with eibach endlinks. That's correct but i asked for information earlier about exactly what hardware. Well, i'm here to answer by trial and error.
I pulled that inner fender out and was able to use a wobble socket on that front sway bar bracket bolt.
You can see from one of my pictures i removed the fender screw (figured it wasn't worth it to remove the entire fender liner for 1-2mm of extra clearance, but i was able to remove the screw and push it up and out of the way, sometimes, pulling it to get more clearance. I guess others should just be prepared to remove it. Thanks!
@mikegr Thanks!
Yes, i didn't need to use spacers for the softest settings but you can see the issue in the picture where the bar is in the way of the endlink. It's questionable if you'd need it if you set it up while on the ground, but you'll quickly run into trouble when the suspension is unloaded as it appears to be in the picture.
This seems a little trickier to avoid with spaces but i think moving the swivel-head (heim? idk) to the other side of the bar in the image and then adding 10-20mm longer bolts/spacer might work.
You can see from one of my pictures i removed the fender screw (figured it wasn't worth it to remove the entire fender liner for 1-2mm of extra clearance, but i was able to remove the screw and push it up and out of the way, sometimes, pulling it to get more clearance. I guess others should just be prepared to remove it. Thanks!
@mikegr Thanks!
Yes, i didn't need to use spacers for the softest settings but you can see the issue in the picture where the bar is in the way of the endlink. It's questionable if you'd need it if you set it up while on the ground, but you'll quickly run into trouble when the suspension is unloaded as it appears to be in the picture.
This seems a little trickier to avoid with spaces but i think moving the swivel-head (heim? idk) to the other side of the bar in the image and then adding 10-20mm longer bolts/spacer might work.
good to know, I have the same bar in the rear and hopefully will be getting some scales to corner balance so will do the adjustable endlinks. For me car handles great with softest setting in rear and middle in front but also have stiffer springs on my coilovers. We’ll see how it plays out.
Good reassurance seeing you like the handling the way it is. I might leave it in here if my next track day goes well. Adjustability is the issue. I'm not good enough to be complaining about oversteer/understeer tuning just yet, but i definitely felt the need to corner flatter and transition quicker.
You have aftermarket coilovers? Which brand what specs?
Good reassurance seeing you like the handling the way it is. I might leave it in here if my next track day goes well. Adjustability is the issue. I'm not good enough to be complaining about oversteer/understeer tuning just yet, but i definitely felt the need to corner flatter and transition quicker.
You have aftermarket coilovers? Which brand what specs?
I run JRI double adjustable, still doing some slight changes on set up based on what I like. Currently running 700/ 750# spring front rear. I am a big fan of this brand, but more so of the suspension guy I work with who has tons of experience and is heavy in the racing scene. He has personal design experience with Penske and JRI.
I installed the Eibach rear swaybar on my 23 Z51 yesterday in the softer position and have done 2 test drives on our best curvy roads in the county. I completely agree with what Kracka posted some time ago. - “No abnormal noises on rough roads/aprons/transitions, feels tighter but not too tight, cuts better and rotates nicer! Very happy with the upgrade. The "soft" setting seems ideal with stock tires and front swaybar.” I look forward to track testing probably sometime in February. Well pleased at this point.
I just completed 4 30minute sessions at VIR this week. Should have been twice that many but it ended up raining both days. Car is very balanced and easier to control. Quoting Randy Pobst “ It puts the power down”. Definitely flatter in the turns and with the curbing. Very pleased with this setup and will leave the stock front end bar alone. Running Falken RT 660 -265 Front -315 Rear. Thank you Kracka for the OP to put me on to this!
