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Official C7 Road Course Lap Times...Submit Your Times Here!
We need this to inspire others and help other improve their line/braking/etc at particular tracks, so please, ALL members, if you do a track day, PLEASE SUBMIT HERE. Please have your PDR information/video available if any dispute arises over your time submission. If not, your submission will be turned black until further verification is posted.
If you have a C6 ZR1, C5Z or any Corvette that you'd like to add, for comparison purposes, I think we should entertain it, but please pm it for submission. I DO think it's appropriate to include any C7 in the list, as I think everyone would be interested in seeing what people can do with all models.
HOW TO SUBMIT
This is how your name will appear:
-Verified with PDR available (or other video/data), name in blue
-Unverified due to issue or problem, name in black
-Your BEST Time. I don't care if this is your first time on a track ever...the point is to just log your best, so it can compare with other owners (it may be their first time as well).
-A brief abbreviation of transmission type (M7 or A8)/C7 (will indicate base), Z51, Z06 Lev 1, 2 or Z07/Tire type
-A "Details" link will appear after your name which, when clicked, will allow the reader to zoom to your specific post to see your pics/vid/details/comments/etc.
RULES:
- Time must be actually timed (PDR/Aftermarket datalogger/transponder/digital timer/etc), no guesses or estimates.
- Driver must submit their own time (exceptions will be made at my discretion)
-Track
-Layout (if more than 1)
-Transmission Type
-Driving Mode/Settings
-Aero Package/Option Package/Setup
-Tires
-Conditions/Temp
-Overheat warning/failure if any
-Best Time of the day/Session achieved
-Modifications, if any
-Notes (issues experienced, failures, passenger, anything pertinent that you feel affected your time, etc)
What you will find here is a time at a given track, with a brief description of the car showing the transmission type/RPO and aero stage type/Tire type/Ambient Temperature. After that there is a link that says "details". Clicking this will automatically take you to where the person originally posted their data/video, or what ever other information is pertinent. Information such as alignment, setup, overall performance of the car, passengers, track experience there, etc.
Attention to PDR Timer Anomaly
The PDR timing has been revealed to have a flaw, in that it randomly jumps back 2 seconds. PLEASE watch your fast lap PDR video and count each second on the timer view. We are finding videos that the timer jumps backward and the data reflects the flawed time as well. All videos below found with timing issues will have an indication of "PDR" in bold at the beginning. That means the lap time appears to be 2 seconds slower than indicated
Legend:
** -- Means car received cooling system attention as part of track day prep, see details[/COLOR] **** -- Means car received aftermarket cooling system upgrades
Name in this color indicates C5 platform Name in this color indicates C6 platform Name in this color indicates C7 platform
================================
Schaibaa -- 1:37.19 -- M7/Z06 w stg3 added/HoosierR7/80F ambient, no issuesDetails/Vid Boozhownd -- 1:39+ (time not specifically validated) -- M7/Z07/Cup2/55F Ambient, no issuesDetails/Vid Rob Willis -- 1:44.72 -- M7/Z51 (see aero mods in details)/NittoNT01/75F Ambient, no issuesDetails/Vid
================================
VinnieA -- 1:14.2x -- M7/Z07/Tire not shown/85F Ambient, no issues (stated very close to overheat), Limited Slip failureDetails/Vid GregQuillen -- 1:21:60 -- M7/Z06 stg1/Pilot SS/78F Ambient, no issues **Details/Vid/Data
The CH-47960-10 tool that mounts to the rear upright to allow an angle gauge to determine angle of upright, in relation to the vehicle surface.
This is an actual tool used, as specified by GM that dealerships should have. One part of the tool mounts to the upright bracket, the other sits on the tire surface (lift ramp).
You could likely use a simple angle gauge on the above linked bracket, and then measure the angle of the surface the car is on. The difference would be your caster angle.
The C7 has adjustable rear caster. What does rear caster do?
In easiest lingo, I'll simply quote one of the best books I own, "How to make your car handle".
To understand the issue with improper caster in the rear, you must understand how a rear toe change impacts the car itself.
"Cars with independent rear suspension also have a toe setting at the rear. Because the driving forces tend to cause toe-in, the rear wheels are usually set at zero toe. The effect of toe-in, or toe-out on the rear is much like the front, toe out causing instability and oversteer. You should set the rear toe at the car manufacturers specs and do final adjustments at the track. Usually zero or a slight toe in will be the final setting, with high powered cars having the greatest need for a toe in setting."
With the addition of rear caster adjustment to the C7, the main reason was to eliminate dynamic bump steer if the cars suspension settings were altered (i.e. most track capable Corvette ever). Bump steer being when the suspension compresses or unloads, the toe angle changes with it, creating an inadvertent steering or deviation of the tires.
I suspect with the C7, the rear caster is set specifically upon assembly, then the car is aligned to a factory spec. Caster won't likely vary much (until bushing and joint wear set in), but if you immediately make large changes to camber in the rear for track use, this will likely not be the case.
To avoid changes in intended handling characteristics at, or approaching the limit, be sure to verify your rear caster setting, as this is a traditionally non-typical adjustment for a mass production vehicle. Most alignment shops will not be aware of its existence.
Understanding Heat/Cooling and design challenges
This is a recently released video on a channel I follow. I think it's content would be positive for some people in this community or for general knowledge. It would create a better understanding of what is faced creating a car of this caliber, giving it a warranty, then selling it to the masses. Enjoy.
Coolant Preparations and Summary: READ BEFORE you track your Z06
Originally Posted by Poor-sha
There are at least 3 different heat related concerns that owners have raised about the C7 Z06 and heavy track use and I’m going to try to cover each.
The first is high oil and coolant temperatures that when either reaches a programmed threshold of 265F for coolant and 320F for oil will result in a message being displayed that the engine is over temp and to idle the engine. While I’ve not experiences first hand my understanding is that the car also goes in to so called “limp mode” where there is very limited power.
This issue appears to be most common on A8 cars when the driver leaves the car in “D” and the automatic shift logic holds the engine in lower gears and high RPMs for extended periods of time. Most owners have found that by manually shifting the A8 transmission while on track this issue can be avoided. Also, it is very uncommon for M7 cars to experience this issue in ambient temps less than 100F (SBC you’re the only person I can think of that we know is real). It’s also worth noting that the few instances of excess coolant temps on the street have been the result of mechanical failures of the car and not a systemic design flaw.
Some forum members have experimented with additional cooling measure to include removing the inlet scoop from the radiator to the hood scoop, removing the rear weatherstrip on the hood, and aftermarket radiators. At best it seems the results have been inconclusive so far.
The second issue is the electric power steering unit overheating on track. The symptom is that the power assist becomes intermittent and eventually turns off completely along with receiving a message on the display to service power steering. It is unclear why but this issue seems to be tied to running the air conditioner while on track. In the cases I am familiar with simply running with the A/C off will prevent the power steering from overheating. I’m not aware of anyone that has overheated the PS with the A/C off. Some folks have tried using spacers to allow additional air in the engine compartment from under the undertray but again I believe the results have been inconclusive so far.
Finally, there is the issue of the car losing power after extended tracking because of an increasing Intake Air Temperature (IAT). This is also known as heat soak. My personal experience has been that the C7 Z06 intercooler does a good job of managing IAT and the only time I’ve experience this issue was with rapid back to back sessions extending for multiple hours in ambient temps in the mid to upper 90’s.
Some might confuse this with a oil or coolant overtemp condition but in my experience this has occurred when fluid temps were still well below the maximum. The car still runs fine and can continue to be tracked, just without as much acceleration, and preliminary IAT data seems to indicate that the temps rise quickly when the car is stopped but then also drop rapidly once it is moving again.
Last, it’s worth noting that the C7 Z06 appears to be very sensitive to fuel quality. There have been multiple reports of cars entering what feels like a low power or limp like mode on track after adding questionable fuel. In these cases there is no message on the DIC and adding quality fuel and driving for a while seems to clear up the issue. I mention this simply because it might be confused with a heat related issue.
I’ve tried to fairly cover the input from those that have provided their personal experiences and been very specific about what I am basing solely on my experience. If I referred to you indirectly and you want to be named explicitly please say so, I simply didn’t want to start digging through the old thread to see who said what. Hopefully we can have a productive discussion from here.
Originally Posted by lawdogg149
Sounds like a pretty good detail run through it all. Only exception i see is the power steering going out while tracking was done with the AC off in my car. I have never ran the AC while tracking. I have since been back to the track and ran 2 full days with no issues with power steering or any over heating.
I have ran many days with temps 95 to 99 degrees with never any engine coolant or Oil temp overheating with just the following mods.
My mods:
80/20 water coolant ratio
15w50 mobil 1
Rear weatherstrip removed
Home made heat shield between the cat and oil cooler.
It is dire for anyone tracking to change the coolant ratio and oil to 15w50 before tracking.
Originally Posted by Snorman
So I went to a 20% Dex concentration with WW [water wetter] before Roebling. I have sessions where the coolant stabilized in the mid-240's (during one session after 11 laps stabilized at 243-244* for remainder of session) and oil stabilized at 293* at the same point.
Originally Posted by Greg Quillen
As per owners manual on hot days you have to run higher percentage of water. I run 80% and it runs cool
It should be noted that running the car with the highest octane fuel available, non leaded of course, is the best course of action to prevent knock induced timing retard, and subsequent rising temperatures. Also, proper bleeding of the cooling system is also essential.
Using the A8:
Originally Posted by Snorman
From what we have gathered, running the car in auto is definitely one thing that brings up coolant temps faster.
Suggested Cooling System Modifications THAT WORK
None with conclusive/proven results. Removing strips, ducts and altering vents, may have an obvious impact how and where air goes, but it is very likely to have a negative impact on aerodynamic functions, and potentially have passively negative results in the effectiveness of the systems designed around those ducts, strips and vents. If it makes you feel good, so be it, but nothing has been proven effective with good solid before and after data. Proceed to disassemble your Z06, with the intent of improving it, at your own risk
It is a given that some modifications to increase cooling system effectiveness, such as a larger/higher capacity radiator, will have some degree of improvement. How much of a true resulting improvement remains to be seen, until more people install them and can truly vouch for the obvious change in performance. Preliminary review of some upgraded radiators suggest that the manufacturer claims are somewhat greater than the true customer experience. With these cars, air is very directed through the core, and extracted out the hood. While larger capacity radiators, and use of more aluminum can have some impact, you are still dictated by surface area and available volume/temp of the air moving across the core.
Understand PTM Modes and When to Use Them Alex Macdonald, lead Corvette development engineer and expert in chassis controls, describes below how they are designed and how he utilizes them
Glossary:
TCS - Traction Control System
ESC - Electronic Stability Control
PTM - Performance Traction Management
MR - Magnetic Ride
ELSD - Electronic Limited Slip Differential
ABS - Anti Lock Braking System
Mode uses: WET: This mode is intended for any driver who is on a wet track. The track should be wet enough to be glossy, not just damp. A damp or drying track will require the driver to decide between WET and DRY modes to get the best performance. Standing water is not recommended as hydroplaning is possible and no TCS system can accurately control a tire that is hydroplaning.
The slip targets are very low, lower than in standard TCS. The MR is in tour mode to maximize mechanical grip since the lower cornering forces don’t require the extra control offered in Sport or Track. ESC is on and uses the normal calibration, not the competitive calibration.
DRY: This mode is for a novice driver on any track or an experienced driver learning a brand new track. I also use it to warm up the tires or run the mold release off of new tires, especially if it’s cold out.
Slip targets here are very similar to normal TCS but will feel very different due to the entry prediction. MR is in Sport to compliment the usage we expect in this mode. ESC is on but uses the competitive calibration.
SPORT 1: This mode is for any driver who is ready to run very competitive lap times while still having stability control on in the background. I use this mode whenever I have a passenger, possible distractions such as data collection, or as I am continuing to become more familiar with a new track.
Slip targets are higher here than in normal TCS. MR is in track mode and ESC is on using the competitive calibration.
SPORT 2: This mode uses the exact same traction control settings as SPORT 1 but turns off ESC completely. This mode is designed as a way to turn off ESC while maintaining a fairly stable TCS calibration. I use it very often. Basically any time where tenths of a second are not critical to my testing or when the tires are getting too hot or wearing out. After 10 to 15 consecutive laps it is likely that your fastest times will be achieved in SPORT 2 rather than RACE.
Slip targets here are the same as SPORT 1. MR is still in track mode and ESC is turned OFF.
RACE: This one is pretty self-explanatory, it’s as fast as we know how to make the car go. This mode is for a well prepared car on relatively new tires with an advanced driver that is completely familiar with the track. The track should be somewhat warm and the tires should be up to temperature.
Slip targets are 100% optimized for forward acceleration, any small variances in the track or tires can result in momentary overslip that will have to be managed by the driver.
A few notes about RACE mode: I approach this mode as a tool to go faster meaning that I think specifically about it when I go to WOT and I try to change or optimize my throttle application point and steering to help the computer do its job. It can do the job better than me but only if I give it good information. A specific example is how I unwind the steering wheel mid corner and as the corner opens up. When learning to drive on track it is good practice to automatically unwind the steering wheel as you apply throttle regardless of the vehicle response (a string tied from throttle toe to steering wheel is the analogy used by some instructors). The problem in RACE PTM is that by doing that you are telling the car you are ready to go straight. It will add power and drive you to a wider line. The best results are found by holding the wheel as steady as you can and pointing the car to corner exit only when it’s time. Obviously you have to be ready to correct for overslip but as you gain trust you will find this is required less often than it feels at first. It is very useful to practice using PTM in the lower modes where you can focus on letting the car go where you point it and not correcting your steering too early.
We find that the calibration settings that achieve the fastest lap times often result in expert drivers feeling like they are being held back slightly on corner exit. Most of the time that extra little bit of slip that an expert driver wants is over the traction peak of the tire and may feel good but is wasting forward acceleration. The restrictive feeling is not there as a safety net, rather, it’s as close as we can operate to the peak capability of the tire in a robust way.
Other notes: The eLSD “PTM mode” is only a slight alteration of its normal track mode. This alteration is required since it is likely to see engine torque values that would not occur without PTM. However, the philosophy of what it’s trying to do and how it’s controlling vehicle dynamics does not change between PTM and TCS/ESC OFF mode.
As for the nannies, that term is a big gray area. I would personally call TCS, PTM, ESC and active rev match nannies but would not call the eLSD or MR dampers nannies. ABS is very gray. ABS, TCS, PTM, ESC and active rev match are trying to do a better job of something you normally do as a driver, steering, throttle, brake or shifting. However, no driver ever controls a differential directly or a shock absorber directly. They are part of the base chassis tuning and can be thought of as a calibration component like a spring or anti roll bar.
ABS is more of a gray area but it is not allowed to be shut off because the capability of the vehicle is so limited without it. You may need 200 bar of brake pressure to get max decel from a wheel that’s on the outside of a corner but the inside wheel would be totally locked at 50 bar. Unless you want a lot of flat spotted tires you need ABS in that situation. Also, somewhat like eLSD and MR, individual wheel brake pressure is something even the best driver can’t physically control without the electronics.
That’s a long way of saying you can shut off TCS, PTM, ESC and active rev match but you can’t shut off MR, eLSD or ABS.
Z51 Specific Information
Transmission cooler using C7 Z06 parts:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AliZ51 asked:
Is it possible to install the C7 Z06 A8 secondary transmission cooler on a 2015 C7 Z51 A8? If yes, what would it take to get this done? If no, what can be done to bring extra cooling capacity to The Z51 A8 transmission?
Many 2015 C7 Z51 owners are dealing with transmission overheating issues on the track even in low ambient temperatures. The dealers are not able to help or address this issue. We know now that the 2016 Z51 will come with a secondary transmission cooler but what about us (2015 Z51 A8 owners). We do need a retrofit kit and instructions for the dealers for us who purchased the 2015 Z51 package in order to run on the track or spirited canyons drives.
Tadge answered:
One really good thing about the "Ask Tadge" section of the forum is that it focuses attention on issues where we can help customers. This question is a good example. The short answer is yes, the 2016 A8 cooling content can be retrofit on both the 2014 (A6) and '15 cars. You can use most of the production parts for 2016 with a few minor tweaks. Through our Performance Parts organization, we are putting together a kit with the needed material and instructions. It is not a super easy installation, but will be doable by the serious enthusiast. It should be available by the end of this year.
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Why do all the PDR videos published to date have a distinct green cast and overall washed-out look? The camera hardware/firmware must allow for better calibration of color balance and white balance. How about a firmware update to fix the problem?
Tadge answered:
This is a perfect example of continuous improvement and backwards compatibility that I was asked about a couple weeks ago. GM engineering and our partner Cosworth have been working hard to improve the PDR and the user experience. One area of investigation has been the image quality. Coincidentally, a software change was just released for Bowling Green production at the end of March and we will be making it available to customers who already have their cars in the next few weeks. The software includes several changes including improvements in color balance and sharpness of the image on the video.
His explanation from another thread, due to people inquiring is quoted below
Here's the TDLR (too long didn't read version):
Buy an AIM solo unit and run it in conjunction with a Smarty Cam.
Dump the data in Race Render, using one of the standard templates
This will get you potentially better data than I have, but at the expense of higher upfront cost.
Now here's the story behind my setup:
First you have to understand that my videos are a true labor of love. I've refined my videos & data logging over the last year with each event I participated in. I started very simple and every now and then I use my commute to work to experiment with camera angles, mic positions, file syncing, and data overlay (no laps of course, that's what subdivision are for ). My car looks very silly when I do this but I feel the finished product is worth it. Now on to the fun stuff…
What I'm using:
Android App: Torque App
Samsung S4 w/ 64GB microSD card
Front Camera: DriftHD w/ external mic mounted above license plate -->Link to Drift Website
In-car Camera: Kodak v570 (really old discontinued point & shoot)
OBDii Bluetooth reader: OBDLink MX Bluetooth Scan Tool --> Link to OBDii Scan Tools website
Qstarz BT-Q818XT 10Hz 66 Channel Bluetooth GPS Receiver --> Link to Amazon Link to Amazon
Overly Software: RaceRender 3 --> Link to RaceRender Website
X-factor: Patience and Testing, This is KEY
In the beginning, I used my phone’s internal GPS but it has as a resolution of about 1Hz (1 update/second). For laptimes I wanted a greater resolution so I purchased the 10Hz unit (10 updaes/second ala 0.1s level of accuracy) listed above. Originally I was using the ELM27 Bluetooth OBDii reader which worked fine but it had a limited refresh speed and the more channels of data I added the worse it performed. With the MX Bluetooth Scanner I’m running about 17 channels of data (OBDii & GPS speed, rpm, various temp sensors, knock retard, etc.) at a refresh rate of about 2.5Hz (2.5 updates/ second, ala 0.4s level of accuracy). If I ran a smaller number of channels I could run at almost 10Hz and match my GPS unit but that level of accuracy isn't really important to me right now. The screen shot of my video below displays most of the channels but there are a handful that I use for analysis and video syncing.
Final Thoughts:
I’m 30 and I’ve had my car for almost 3 years so I use the videos of my outings as kind of a digital scrap book and training materials. I think of them as a cross between an old school VHS video album and a poor man’s PDR. Know that my cameras are 3 generations behind the new stuff but they work great and I had them around. If I were to recreate my system today the only change I would make is to use 2 drift cameras because I would be able to start them simultaneously through 1 remote. Other than that my setup has been rock solid with no hardware/functionality issues.
If you made it this far through my ramblings I commend you. Don't hesitate to ask any questions about my setup or anything I've experience with my car. Good or bad. I picked my car up from the museum with 3 miles on it in Dec 2012 with a plan to drive it alot. I'm currently at 56K miles and so far I've tried Auto-X, Drag Racing, Skid-Pads, long Mountain Trips (900+ miles in 2 days), and of course track days. I'm a big believer in sharing good information and that is why I wrote this long thesis. Going to a racing school will probably be the best return on investment in becoming a better driver. The second is to simply increase your seat time and pay attention every opportunity you have to learn something no matter how insignificant. Lastly, manual Grand Sports are amazing cars and I would wager that they are probably more capable than 85% of the street cars that show up at track days. In the lower run groups where most drives are on street tires I tend to keep up with everything but Z06/ZR1's, GT3, Vipers level cars. Just my 0.02 cent
Here's some comparative video of several earlier generations of Corvettes at Laguna Seca during a Speed Ventures Corvette Challenge day on 7/10/2010.
I'm running my base '06-C6-A6, stock motor, exhaust, XP10 pads, but with full suspension mods and old Kumho 710s. It's my autox setup and daily driver. I ran a couple of low 1:42s here.
The C4 I pass at the beginning also ran 1:42s on Dunlop slicks. The C6 Z06s that pass me were probably in the 1:38-9s when they got going. Redtop, in his C5 T1, has been around in low 1:33s. Now, that's fast.
Here's some comparative video of several earlier generations of Corvettes at Laguna Seca during a Speed Ventures Corvette Challenge day on 7/10/2010.
I'm running my base '06-C6-A6, stock motor, exhaust, XP10 pads, but with full suspension mods and old Kumho 710s. It's my autox setup and daily driver. I ran a couple of low 1:42s here.
The C4 I pass at the beginning also ran 1:42s on Dunlop slicks. The C6 Z06s that pass me were probably in the 1:38-9s when they got going. Redtop, in his C5 T1, has been around in low 1:33s. Now, that's fast.
Enjoy!
--Dan
I enjoyed that...looked like the two Z06's were having fun with each other.
RC, the time for Milner at Road Atlanta was 1:29.60. I posted that awhile back. It clearly shows on the Corvette PDR video of Milners prior lap before the 1:29.81 lap. Look at the very beginning of the video and you will see the delayed prior lap time of each contiguous lap. There's about a 2 second delayed view of the lap time on the PDR while it continues timing of the next lap. Also Andy Pilgrims time of 1:29.88 and Randy Pobst time of 1:30.18 could be put on your list
1:57.98 mylaps transponder
Miller Motorsports Park, Outer loop
6 speed
Traction control off
Rear wing, front splitter
Pirelli scrubs ( fronts had been flipped to get a few session out of them)
65*
C5Z06 TT1
Just having a fun last practice day of the year Chasing Madison and Melanie Snow around in their Porsche Cups
If you have a C6 ZR1, C5Z or any Corvette that you'd like to add, for comparison purposes, I think we should entertain it, but please pm it for submission. I DO think it's appropriate to include any C7 in the list, as I think everyone would be interested in seeing what people can do with all models
We'll get there...as you can see...we don't have much going for us right now...lol. Plus, the powers that be will then try to put this in road racing where all the junkies are located. The mission should be to put this where all the junkies AREN'T so we can inspire NEW people to hit the track.
Park, I think they only want lap times from the C6Z although it would be much better for all Corvette's.
Cool, just real interested in what the new Z is going to run at the different tracks. Hopefully I'll get a student at a NASA or Porsche club this spring with one that I'll get to drive.
Cyclone09Z06
2:20
Sebring
3.7 miles 17 Turns 12 Hour Course
M7
Track Mode / Race Setting
3LZ/Z07/Track Alignment as per owners manual
dry 80's
Harness Bar, Six Point Harness, Finspeed 18" F14 with Hoosier Slicks
Only ran 3-1/2 sessions as I thought my brake pads were done
Cyclone09Z06
2:20
Sebring
3.7 miles 17 Turns 12 Hour Course
M7
Track Mode / Race Setting
3LZ/Z07/Track Alignment as per owners manual
dry 80's
Harness Bar, Six Point Harness, Finspeed 18" F14 with Hoosier Slicks
Only ran 3-1/2 sessions as I thought my brake pads were done
Were they or were you getting knockback? Even with the slicks the CCBs should have lasted all day.
01-15-2015, 07:42 PM
Official C7 Road Course Lap Times...Submit Your Times Here!
